Question about multiple universities

[MadameUgly]

Aside from having different decor (and maxis made playables) is there any reason to have multiple universities (say one of each of the maxis made ones) attached to a neighborhood?

I really want all the maxis made uni students to eventually circulate through my build a city challenge 'hood but not if attaching multiple universities is a Very Bad Thing (or if it's just a redundant waste of character files, with uni NPC folks being the same in each uni).  I can always just clone the maxis made playables using simPe and re-create them (and only have one uni for the neighborhood).

For the record, I have all the "noregen" type hacks (found in the director's cut) and I have all EPs and SPs except Ikea.

Thanks.

[rufio]

It's not a VBT, but yes, the same uni dormies will appear in each uni hood.  I don't think they spawn duplicates of the same dormies, if that's what you're asking - the same dormies will just show up on all the different campuses.  They may spawn additional (but unique) dormies if you marry some out/move all your sims into high-density dorms, though this is true with just one uni hood as well.  I'm not sure if just the act of creating an additional uni hood will spawn more dormies.

I have all three for my own purposes - I pretend they are different loosely-affiliated colleges of the same area, with slightly different tuition rates and course offerings.  It's slightly annoying when a dormie last seen living in a dorm on Campus A starts rooming on Campus B, but then again it's weird that they don't ever age, too.

[MadameUgly]

I'm ok with seeing the same dormie faces in each university.  I was just concerned about conserving character files wherever possible.  Since it's a build a city challenge neighborhood, there will be a high number of playable sims (and the challenge is long).  I just want to do everything possible to prevent the neighborhood from dieing before I finish the challenge.

And a rather dumb question (which I think I know the answer to but need clarification).

Is the uni student bin shared between the three universities?  So any sim (from the neighborhood) who ends up in the bin will show up in any of the uni's until I place them? 

[rufio]

Is the uni student bin shared between the three universities?

Yes.  In fact, I think the Maxis playables that come in the bin will show up in all three unis as well.

[DrNerd]

Each uni spawns its own unique set of Dormies.  If you add all three unis, you'll end up with three complete sets of Dormies, SS members, Streakers, the whole bit.  You can delete the subhoods, if you don't want to have three uni subhoods, and the Dormies will migrate to whatever Uni is left.

The Bin Sims do get shared between the subhoods.

[Pandaah]

Each uni spawns its own unique set of Dormies.  If you add all three unis, you'll end up with three complete sets of Dormies, SS members, Streakers, the whole bit.  You can delete the subhoods, if you don't want to have three uni subhoods, and the Dormies will migrate to whatever Uni is left.

Well, this is only true if you don't use empty templates.

[Tarlia]

I recommend using clean templates for at least two of the unis. That way you get the playables, but not three sets of professors and a billion dormies and whatnot.

I don't think dormies respawn at all with nodormieregen in, so if you use clean templates for all three and don't create any dormies on your own, unoccupied dorms will in fact just remain unoccupied. You'll just get the NPCs.

The local walkbys hack keeps playable YAs in their own uni hood only, but dormies will wander all over the place, yes.

[MadameUgly]

So it looks like adding all three unis (as is, not clean templates) isn't really worth all the extra character files it will create.

Guess I'll have some fun cloning all the maxis-made folks from the two unis I don't add.

[maxon]

I have done the numbers test several times (and can send you the report if you like).  What happens when you add universities without empty templates is as follows:

The first one, you get a full set of NPCs and dormies.

The second and any subsequent one, you only get a set of dormies - though it's 50 per university.  This is the relevant bit from my report (yes, I was that anal about it).  The number at the top (390 sims) is the number of character files you would expect to already be present in a new neighbourhood just before you added a university.  This is from the Freetime report so includes all the NPCs that get initially generated in a hood with all EPs to FT included.  As you can see, adding a university then adds 98 files.  Obviously, using empty templates prevents all this except for the generation of the professors (lecturers to us English) which will always be generated no matter what you do - and actually need to be in order for the university to run properly.  If you use the empty templates and no regen hacks, the game will spawn NPCs as it needs them, though with my regular empty template hood I only got one of each of the streaker, mascots and so on.  The random extra sims (I've never worked out whether those are just there because of Maxian laziness (probable) or whether they actually have a role of some sort) don't ever get generated.


Adding a University
390 Sims +98

Professors (24 elder and adult)
Students (50 YA obviously)

NPCs (21)
Cheerleader (female YA 3)
Chinese Delivery (3)
Motivators (elder 3)
Dorm Cooks (elder 3)
Llama Mascot (YA 3)
Shop Assistants (adult 3) - never used?
Cow Mascots (YA 3)

Random Sims from University who never appear in game (3)
MA 2 FA 1

Adding a second or subsequent University will add another 50 dormie sims (built to the same template so they look exactly like the first set - different names)


Oh, edited to add - these numbers are, of course, with otherwise empty hoods.  I have never, ever played a Maxis hood, always preferring my own.  If you use the Maxis hoods, you will also get the Maxis playables included with those hoods, unless you (again) use the empty templates.

[pentabet]

Each uni spawns its own unique set of Dormies.  If you add all three unis, you'll end up with three complete sets of Dormies, SS members, Streakers, the whole bit.  You can delete the subhoods, if you don't want to have three uni subhoods, and the Dormies will migrate to whatever Uni is left.

The Bin Sims do get shared between the subhoods.

So for the sake of the stupid (me), I'm just double-checking that it is OK, and not a VBT to delete a Uni hood, just like deleting a shopping district for example - everyone just moves elsewhere.  Right?
I added all Uni hoods, then felt like it was more than I needed.  Can I kill two of the subhoods, without crapping on my game?

[J. M. Pescado]

So for the sake of the stupid (me), I'm just double-checking that it is OK, and not a VBT to delete a Uni hood, just like deleting a shopping district for example - everyone just moves elsewhere.  Right?
I added all Uni hoods, then felt like it was more than I needed.  Can I kill two of the subhoods, without crapping on my game?

Yes. It is safe to delete surplus subhoods. I don't think the game will let you delete your LAST one, and you definitely shouldn't do that, though.

[pentabet]

Thank you sir, and duly noted.

[rufio]

Shop Assistants (adult 3) - never used?

Could those maybe be the streakers?  I remember hearing that the streakers are actually adults rather than YAs.

[Tarlia]

Shop Assistants (adult 3) - never used?


Random Sims from University who never appear in game (3)
MA 2 FA 1

Actually, I think the shop assistants are the baristas. The espresso podium came with Uni, I'm pretty sure.

The "random sims that never appear" I think are, in fact, the streakers. It's just kinda hard to recognise their icons when they have their clothes on.

[maxon]

@ Tarlia - no, they aren't.  I didn't post my full report and perhaps I should have explained more clearly.  This is a list of sim files which appear after the uni sub-hood is added.  That's how I did the tests.  I created a hood first and listed all the files created (the 390) and then added a university and then listed the extra files generated, then a downtown and so on.  The baristas are generated when you create the neighbourhood, before you add a uni so are not included in this part of the list.  The OP's original query, if you remember, was what gets added when you add a university?  Basically, baristas get added whether you attach a university or not.  Even though certain NPCs come with a specific EP, some of them will get generated before an EP sub-hood is added, while some, often those who do not appear unless you have the sub-hood actually attached, don't and then get added when you add the sub-hood, though this is not always the case.  The same thing happens with BV, for instance, these people get added to the base hood BEFORE you add any of the holiday destinations (and are therefore counted in the 390).

Hotel Clerk (male 3)
Ninja (male 3)
Unsavoury Charleton (male 3)
Hotel Maid (female 3 - no particular evidence these can't be male, but were female with this test)
Local Chef (3)
Masseuse (3)

and it's only afterwards, when the first sub-hood is added, that tourists and the vacation locals for that sub-hood appear.

@ Rufio - Not as far as I know.  The streakers aren't in the list given here - again. as above, it's only part of the report.  What I did was list everyone that appeared as I added the sub-hoods but didn't include any sims (until the end of the report) that get generated as you play.  The streakers, I think, get generated as you play.  They are also YAs - in my game anyway but then I play with empty templates and no regen hacks (when I'm not doing the tests) and NPCs like that get added as needed so in my game they aren't 'originals' so to speak.

edited to add - also, I will point out that there are several sets of 'random sims that get generated but never appear in game' that get added to your neighbourhood's sim files as you add various EPs and/or sub-hoods to a new neighbourhood.  This is one (of the many) reason(s) why you would not get me to remove the empty templates from my game under any circumstances.

[Tarlia]

Actually, no. I just checked the original Sim State in SimPE, and the three 'unused shop assistants' are indeed baristas. The three 'random adults' are the streakers.

The only way EP NPCs get added when creating a new neighbourhood is through a so-called "stealth hood", a subhood which has no actual neighbourhood file. Pets, Seasons, BV, FT and AL all have these (of course, FT and AL have the 'hidden neighbourhoods' in these, the hobby 'hood and the witch 'hood). BV's stealth hood is called V001 and THAT's where the ninjas, charlatans, etc come from (and also the tourists, by the way). Stealth hoods also contain the bin sims like Ottomas, Traveller, etc. Uni has no stealth hood and therefore, nothing is added without you adding a Uni first.

[maxon]

Actually, no. I just checked the original Sim State in SimPE, and the three 'unused shop assistants' are indeed baristas. The three 'random adults' are the streakers.

Actually, no, again I'm afraid.  When you create the hood, you can see the baristas clearly enough in the first load after creating the hood before you add a university.  Quite a lot of NPCs get made before any sub-hoods are added.  I've done the count a number of times - it's entirely consistent each time and I can actually send you the reports if you like.  As I said before, quite a few of the BV NPCs get created too before you add a BV sub-hood.  I can't speak to original EAxis hoods because, as I also said before, I never play them.  These number counts are done with new hoods and not EAxis ones.  EAxis hoods are not made in quite the same way as the basic game hood creation mechanic.  Sorry but whatever applies in SimState doesn't necessarily apply to what I am saying.  I did say clearly, in my first post, that these numbers were based on empty hoods, not on EAxis ones.  If you don't believe me, I suggest trying it yourself.

[Tarlia]

Actually, no, again I'm afraid.  When you create the hood, you can see the baristas clearly enough in the first load after creating the hood before you add a university.  Quite a lot of NPCs get made before any sub-hoods are added.  I've done the count a number of times - it's entirely consistent each time and I can actually send you the reports if you like.  As I said before, quite a few of the BV NPCs get created too before you add a BV sub-hood.  I can't speak to original EAxis hoods because, as I also said before, I never play them.  These number counts are done with new hoods and not EAxis ones.  EAxis hoods are not made in quite the same way as the basic game hood creation mechanic.  Sorry but whatever applies in SimState doesn't necessarily apply to what I am saying.  I did say clearly, in my first post, that these numbers were based on empty hoods, not on EAxis ones.  If you don't believe me, I suggest trying it yourself.

If by "first load" you mean after you've loaded a lot in a completely clean neighbourhood and you don't have antiredundancy in, then that makes sense as it will then generate entirely new NPCs. I thought you meant before loading anything and that they were being created from templates.  Back to the original argument: I mentioned Sim State because - unless you have a clean template for it - that's where the game will pull NPCs and dormies from when you create a new, custom university, just like Pleasantview NPCs and townies are added to any new custom base hood without a clean template. I assume your reports are based on what happens if you don't have clean templates - and the three NPCs you refer to as "shop assisants" (btw, there are no adult shop assistants, they're all teens) ARE in fact baristas. It doesn't matter if you already have three generated by the game then, because it will dump everything from Sim State into your hood anyway, sans the playables. Likewise, there are three seemingly normal looking adult sims in the Sim State template, and those are streakers.

I've gone through each and every one of the EAxis templates in SimPE: basehoods, subhoods and stealthhoods. I've cleaned and tidied up them all, and combined them into a megahood. I'm very well aware of what's in them and what they do and do not affect, in custom hoods as well.

What gets generated (not added from a template) upon first load of a lot in a clean neighbourhood without antiredundancy and notownie/dormie/stray respawn is an entirely different matter and has nothing to do with the templates, which is what we were discussing. And that I don't know very much about since I haven't played without those hacks in for a long time.