Important notice from the GRAMMAR POLICE. Plz read. This means you.

[LMahesa]

I do believe this has been the most entertaining thread I have ever read. Now, before I go LURK MOAR, I'd like to point a vaguely trembling finger in the direction of the registration page.

The last time I checked, Assyria no longer existed as a nation, and therefore has no business having a capital city. Either the wrong answer is correct, or the grammar is wrong.

[Rhayden]

I do believe this has been the most entertaining thread I have ever read. Now, before I go LURK MOAR, I'd like to point a vaguely trembling finger in the direction of the registration page.

The last time I checked, Assyria no longer existed as a nation, and therefore has no business having a capital city. Either the wrong answer is correct, or the grammar is wrong.

The point, you have missed it.

[rohina]

Indeed. Grammar is not enough, you must also understand literary and pop culture references.

[professorbutters]

A requirement by an university to "participate in the community" is nothing more than forced indoctrination. A large part of the problem with the distinct downturn in the quality of American education is that more time is spent with socialization than academic and vocational knowledge, from grade school through university. It is the right of the individual to choose their level of community involvement, even if that means as little participation as possible. Then, this comes from a pirate and misanthrope of the "take what you can, give nothing back" variety.

It is the responsibility of the parent to teach their children to play well with others, and the academic institution to impart knowledge.

Jesus God yes, thank you.  My institution currently has a big thing about "Service Learning."  A year or two ago, I noticed that the Dean had suggested that I might like to look into using Service Learning, and this was duly passed up the chain to the framming Provost, so that it went in my Retention/Tenure/Promotion letter for that year.  It turns out that every single professor who still had to go through the tenure and promotion process that year was advised to use Service Learning.  Every single one.  Luckily, I don't ever have to go through that process again, so I can just ignore any more of their brilliant ideas.

I don't have any problem with it if it's relevant, but I think it's very tone-deaf to the actual needs of our students.  I'm teaching Shakespeare:  what kind of Service Learning are my students supposed to do with that?  Teach younger kids Shakespeare?  They don't know it themselves.  Most of our students are working; many are studying to be teachers, which often means a lot of teaching practice and internships (REAL Service Learning); and a lot of them have families of their own.  They're already having difficulties carving out the time to take classes and study.  What if every class they took had a serious Service Learning component?  It seems cruel, unnecessary--and stupid.  The real reason administrators like it is that it makes the University look good ("see?  We are Serving the Needs Of The Community!") 

I just want my students to sit down, shut up, and read.  I'll be happy to grade their papers, answer questions, even listen to their opinions about the reading.  I'm a competent professor, and a completely untrained and uninterested social worker.  Why not let me get on with my job?  Sheesh.

[rohina]

Well, prof buttsecks, Shakespeare is, like, really, really old. Maybe they could knit him an afghan and send him a card saying "thanks for the plays" to his nursing home.

[Assmitten]

I do believe this has been the most entertaining thread I have ever read. Now, before I go LURK MOAR, I'd like to point a vaguely trembling finger in the direction of the registration page.

The last time I checked, Assyria no longer existed as a nation, and therefore has no business having a capital city. Either the wrong answer is correct, or the grammar is wrong.

[LMahesa]

Indeed. Grammar is not enough, you must also understand literary and pop culture references.

Holy Grail, perchance? No matter. On a related note, here's an excessively detailed article on Estimating the Airspeed Velocity of an Unladen Swallow.

[awrevell]

Am I the only one that feels that any teacher that needs to outsource their grading is DOING IT WRONG?

My sister is a teacher. More than once I have been at her house on a weekend and seen her grading papers late in the evening.  One time I offered to help her grade papers and she replied "(i)f I don't grade their papers, I won't know what they need help with."  Therefore I can say with certainty, "no, you aren't the only one who feels that they are doing it wrong".

[teebs]

"Service Learning." How droll. I suppose using "Community Service" makes it sound rather less appealing.

My main concern with the whole concept is the incessant brainwashing used by teachers or the university to further their own social/political agendas. I've seen first hand the power that professors wield over children away from home for the first time. Their mindset is similar to that of someone being indoctrinated into a cult. I watched a teacher actively use cult tactics such as love-bombing to further the agenda of a sociopolitical organization of which she is a member.

As a firm believer in the principle that the individual is greater than the group, this type of activity terrifies me. Then, groups terrify me anyway. The current trend in socialist conformity literally makes me shiver. Conformity breeds stagnation and rewards mediocrity. There is already more than enough mediocrity in this world, where the stupid breed without surcease, and the intellectually superior worry about overpopulation and don't breed at all.

Universities are filled to the brim with students who have no business being there and are putting themselves into massive debt to attain a degree that becomes more worthless with each passing year. Higher education is NOT for everyone. Why is it that "leveling the playing field" invariably means making it easier for the stupid ones?

I could get into the role of government in this trend and the current dumbing down of the populace as a form of crowd control, but then I'd begin to sound like a paranoid freak.

I couldn't resist adding this; "Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it."

[LMahesa]

<snip>
There is already more than enough mediocrity in this world, where the stupid breed without surcease, and the intellectually superior worry about overpopulation and don't breed at all.

Idiocracy. A disturbingly prophetic movie disguised as a lame comedy.

Higher education is NOT for everyone. Why is it that "leveling the playing field" invariably means making it easier for the stupid ones?

I don't know about the states, but that phrase is being bandied about more and more in the UK, and gaining a foothold in Asia. "Our system of education is borked, so we're going to make the tests easier to make it seem the kids are brighter."

[LMahesa]

Am I the only one that feels that any teacher that needs to outsource their grading is DOING IT WRONG?

My sister is a teacher. ... she replied "(i)f I don't grade their papers, I won't know what they need help with."

I sympathize. I teach ESL in Indonesia, and it is an unfortunate fact that many, if not most, of the teachers here aren't overly concerned with learning what the students' needs are, beyond what they glean in-class -- especially in a Korean school, where the grades can be completely arbitrary, and are quite frequently fixed to reach class average goals set by the Korean Department of Education.

However, not all the blame can be shouldered by the teachers - timing is an issue. I currently work in a Korean school's native speaker department, whose focus is iBT TOEFL. We are currently at the beginning of the end-of-semester testing period. Usually, we have one week to test speaking and writing with an extra 3 days to finish grading. THIS year, the Koreans decided to add another, unrelated, integrated (1 unqualified Korean teacher, 1 native speaker) iBT class which resulted in an additional week of testing. So that's 2x speaking and 2x writing to grade, in 3 days, for roughly 150 students per grade, per teacher.

The temptation is understandable.

[teebs]

Idiocracy. A disturbingly prophetic movie disguised as a lame comedy.

Idiocracy is brilliant...and tragic in its dead-on glimpse into our future. Mike Judge excels at social commentary channeled through sophomoric humor.

I don't know about the states, but that phrase is being bandied about more and more in the UK, and gaining a foothold in Asia. "Our system of education is borked, so we're going to make the tests easier to make it seem the kids are brighter."

In the states "leveling the playing field" is the politically correct terminology for catering to the lowest common denominator, and is being used all too frequently.

[professorbutters]

My main concern with the whole concept is the incessant brainwashing used by teachers or the university to further their own social/political agendas. I've seen first hand the power that professors wield over children away from home for the first time.

Children.  Interesting choice of words there.  I'd go so far as to say that this is part of the problem.  CHILDREN have no place at a university.  The university is a place for young adults who are given the opportunity to sample ideas, weigh them, choose what makes sense to them, make choices, and experience the consequences of said choices.  "Brainwashed" young adults, in my experience, are simply those who go home at Thanksgiving and get an enormous charge out of freaking out their parents with social and political ideas that they know won't be welcome (and tattoos. Let's not forget the tattoos.)  It's easy to blame professors for this, but stupid, as I don't know any two professors who agree on anything.  The problem, if there is one, comes from the administration and the political pressure exerted on the administration. 

Rohina, a lot of my students aren't even clear that Shakespeare wrote plays.  They insist on calling his work "books," or worse, "novels."  And I don't think many of them can do something as practical as knitting.

[daisywenham]

In the states "leveling the playing field" is the politically correct terminology for catering to the lowest common denominator, and is being used all too frequently.

10-15 years ago in Wisconsin there was some talk about lowering the eligibility grade for high school sports to a D because apparently there were a lot of athletes having trouble remaining eligible to play.  So um, your son is getting bad grades and your response is "OMG WHAT IF HE CAN'T PLAY FOOTBALL?!" 

On a related note, a town near where I attended high school built a third high school around the same time.  It was a huge school with all the best of everything.  They changed the zoning so that there were some kids from both existing high schools who would now be going to Appleton North as the new school was called.  The parents of some of the kids from Appleton East (which has long had a very successful football program) were upset that their children would have to go to North and would thus no longer have a winning football team to cheer/play for.

My favorite though is the bumper stickers you see around.  "We honor ALL students at <insert school name here>". 

[kiki]

It really IS just as bad for gifted children though; I started school at 4 years old as a 6, and was already reading at a significantly advanced level compared to my peers. I was breezing through books in Kindergarten that 2nd and 3rd graders were struggling with - my mothership told the school this, but due to my age and the belief in wanting to keep the status quo my school fought my family for a good 6 months attempting to hold me back a grade.

I'm still thankful to my parents that they fought so hard to keep my place and refused to let my school hold me back for my age - I ended up graduating approximately 18 months younger than everyone else in my class, but was equal dux of my grade senior year despite it. I spent most of my school years attempting to not appear to be that much smarter than everyone else and blending in, because in the modern schooling system you do NOT want to draw attention to yourself if you're too far advanced of the system you're in.

[jolrei]

I ended up graduating approximately 18 months younger than everyone else in my class, but was equal dux of my grade senior year despite it. I spent most of my school years attempting to not appear to be that much smarter than everyone else and blending in, because in the modern schooling system you do NOT want to draw attention to yourself if you're too far advanced of the system you're in.

Yeah, I tried the "blending in" thing, but I was the victim of a tribe of sadistic educators who decided that 3 or 4 of us would be singled out as the poster boys for their "advanced student" policy.  This was ostensibly so that we could be seen as "tutorial resources" by the less apt students (trans: torture victims for the crowd that rubbed "tattoos" into their arms with pencil erasers and would not believe that I knew what an infection looked like).

I told the kid that his arm would get gangrene and fall off, mainly to relieve the boredom.

[LMahesa]

I told the kid that his arm would get gangrene and fall off, mainly to relieve the boredom.

You'd be done for child abuse for doing that in the UK now, and probably end up as a permanent entry in a List somewhere. Those were the good ol' days.

[rohina]

My main concern with the whole concept is the incessant brainwashing used by teachers or the university to further their own social/political agendas. I've seen first hand the power that professors wield over children away from home for the first time. Their mindset is similar to that of someone being indoctrinated into a cult. I watched a teacher actively use cult tactics such as love-bombing to further the agenda of a sociopolitical organization of which she is a member.

Yeah, asking students to question the assumptions they have grown up with is exactly tantamount to "indoctrination". Screw you, you anti-intellectual blue-collar elitist.

[MuertoElBarto]

Rohina, a lot of my students aren't even clear that Shakespeare wrote plays.  They insist on calling his work "books," or worse, "novels."  And I don't think many of them can do something as practical as knitting.

I thought he was an old TV writer way back in the 70's.  He wrote those Three's Company plotlines - the ones that centered around mistaken identity, where hilarity ensued.

[rohina]

Yeah, I tried the "blending in" thing, but I was the victim of a tribe of sadistic educators who decided that 3 or 4 of us would be singled out as the poster boys for their "advanced student" policy.  This was ostensibly so that we could be seen as "tutorial resources" by the less apt students (trans: torture victims for the crowd that rubbed "tattoos" into their arms with pencil erasers and would not believe that I knew what an infection looked like).

I told the kid that his arm would get gangrene and fall off, mainly to relieve the boredom.

Oh, the forcing of the smart kid to "tutor" its bully. I refused to go to school for an entire week after my teacher tried that one on me in Grade 6. MiniB awesomely resists this by being really unhelpful. She got a bad mark in leadership because she stuck her fingers in her ears during reading time and refused to help the less able readers.

[HomeschooledByTards]

Oh, the forcing of the smart kid to "tutor" its bully. I refused to go to school for an entire week after my teacher tried that one on me in Grade 6. MiniB awesomely resists this by being really unhelpful. She got a bad mark in leadership because she stuck her fingers in her ears during reading time and refused to help the less able readers.

Awesome. I love MiniB.

[teebs]

Yeah, asking students to question the assumptions they have grown up with is exactly tantamount to "indoctrination". Screw you, you anti-intellectual blue-collar elitist.

Yes, I truly believe that reading is witchcraft and teachers should all be slowly spit-roasted over a fire produced by burning a nice blend of hickory and maple woods. I also believe everyone should be required to drive pickups and where bib overalls and the only things that need be taught in school are the Holy Bible and yer basic cypherin'.

Then again, it's possible that I believe that not every professor is best suited to ask their students to question their assumptions. Ultimately, since half the population (according to the bell curve anyway, I think it's more like ninety to ninety-nine percent) is stupid to varying degrees, it is fairly certain that at least one or two college professors are morons who shouldn't be teaching finger painting, much less attempting to affect the social consciousness of young people. So, eat me.

To the professor: Many of the people entering university are not young adults. Children are allowed to be less and less responsible, resulting in retarded maturation. I don't hold professors responsible for normal, healthy behavior or children questioning their childhood beliefs or good old rebellion against the system. I try to refrain from hypocrisy. Being tattooed myself, I find some humor in the parental discomfort caused by such an innocuous act of rebellion.

I am all for questioning, well, everything. Questioning and challenging the status quo is the responsibility of any intelligent person. First however, the person must learn such things as independent and active thinking. Since the current trend, at least in the states, is to teach children not to bother thinking, I believe they may not be prepared for a few of the more politically oriented, less intellectually savvy professors who actually believe that because they managed to grind out a dissertation at some lousy jerkwater state school, they are better able to determine what is best for everyone.

This isn't to say I believe that of all professors. In fact, I don't believe it to be the case with the majority, based on my own experience. I was nearly thirty before I entered university, and I believe I value the experience far more because of my age. I built lasting relationships based on mutual respect with a number of my professors. I place a high value on any strong mind, and I have great respect for the true teacher; not the ones who teach because they cannot do, but the ones who teach because they recognize that knowledge is the only thing of real, lasting value.

Blue-collar elitist.... still chuckling about that...

[rohina]

So, the problem of immature speshul snowflakes who are unprepared for college is to be shouldered entirely by the professors? Despite what you want to argue about their relative maturity, the fact is that college students, in the VAST majority, are legally considered to be adults. Professors are bound by legislation like FOIP or FOIA (depending on the country), which means they have to treat students as adults and their relationship with students is not like that of a school teacher and a pupil.

Professors are there to teach, not to hand-hold and offer pastoral care. Even if I care deeply about a student (okay, stop laughing all you guys who know how mean I am), it's not appropriate for me to leap in and hand hold. My job is to present the material, to challenge students to think about it and to get them to meet specific learning and technical standards.

Your idea that stupid jerks who just barely manage to grind out a PhD (omg I can hardly type that without laughing) can get jobs in the current climate is absolutely hilarious.

Let me guess, all those professors with whom you built strong relationships gave you the grades you thought you deserved, but the ones who are stupid, and can only teach because they can't do, those ones were particularly thick-headed with regard to recognizing your brilliance.

[timelycorruption]

Many of the people entering university are not young adults.

What are they?

[awrevell]

Many of the people entering university are not young adults.

What are they?

They are older men and women who for some reason need to improve their education.

I was 38 and had recently suffered a physical disability when I applied to university.  Prior to being disabled I enjoyed highly physical jobs; however that changed when a series of heart attacks put me on permanent light duty.  Unable to work the types of jobs I was trained for, and unwilling to live on the pittance paid by disability, I had to find a new way to work for a living.  I am now 40 and am currently working towards my degree in Game and Simulation Programming; hopefully I will learn from the mistakes of companies like EA and not be stupid when I start writing code for games.