TS3 L&P

[talysman]

I point to the Legal Threatz as proof that there is no such relationship with any paysites, at least not currently. EA was concerned only with links (to a website that Pescado does not own) for downloading their garbage products, but made no comment about downloads (available on a website Pescado does own) for garbage garbage from paysites.

[zherok]

Why did you specifically mention TSR?  Do you know about a definite link between EA and TSR beyond the rumours I mentioned?

I think it was just speculation on the part of the people who linked to the BBS. Something about how the Maxoid worded the ban to the Booty or something.

Aha, found it: http://bbs.thesims2.ea.com/community/bbs/messages.php?threadID=4e81567021bcc3744668c12a5a66d0f5&directoryID=2&startRow=1&openItemID=item.2,item.104,item.41,item.127,item.23#fbe743ae7dba176013c319ba0b97704c

"A lot of our Simmers have been posting links to PaySitesMustBeDestroyed which is not ok. This site often posts content that is either from our TS2 Store or from partner sites which are pay/subscription based. This is considered linking to pirated content."

I've probably clicked around too much to reasonably find the thread that linked me there, but I believe the TSR connection was just a guess from the thread that brought me to the Maxoid post. Like, "Partner sites? Must be TSR!" that sorta thing. Nothing definite.

[Kyna]

The thing is that nowhere has EA stated who these partner sites are or how the partnership affects simmers.  Speculation and rumours will continue until EA state who their partner sites are, and how these partnerships affect simmers.

What I've heard is most likely is that the EULA will be differently worded for TS3, and that the only creators able to develop CC will have to be in partnership with EA or licensed by them in some form.  EA have seen how willing simmers are to pay for CC and now they want their piece of the pie (as was demonstrated by the introduction of their online store).  EA conducted a survey a while back regarding CC sites, nearly all the sites listed in the survey were pay sites, and many sites with free content (such as MATY, Simbology, MTS2, GOS, InSim, SimLogical) were not included in the survey.  If EA do go down the route of limiting who can produce CC, they will be killing the goose that laid the golden egg.

If PMBD were doing something illegal, I'm sure EA would have sent their lawyers after them for the content that is hosted there.  Instead, their lawyers sent a letter to MATY regarding content that is NOT hosted here.

[zherok]

I'm not too worried yet. There's just too many details they'd have to work on, and the rewards seem pretty damn obvious to be worse than potential gains. Their store is pretty damn benign compared to TSR, and I doubt they could get away with giving you imaginary points for creating content and expect to regulate it with any relevance, ala Peggy G Zone, especially if they made it the ONLY way to get content.

They know sharing is a huge thing, they know that people are willing to spend millions of man-hours producing free shit for their game. TSR can't be that lucrative that they're willing to irreparably damage their IP to emulate it as the only way to get stuff. It's a given that any large restriction would kill a lot of the incentive to create stuff.

[rohina]

So, it turns out that EA is a sinking ship, according to the CBC: http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008/12/19/ea-blackbox.html

I love the last line of that article, "The announcements come a week after EA said it was cancelling plans to open a new studio in Vancouver and after the company lowered its expectation for revenue and earnings for the 2009 fiscal year." Isn't this tantamount to admitting defeat about TS3 before it even comes out?

[Alex]

When I saw a recent gameplay trailer I was stunned at the extent of how much of The Sims 3 has been recycled from The Sims 2. Not surprised, as I figured it would probably happen, but not quite as much as what I saw.

Interesting to see the EA spokesperson is called Colin Macrae. Unless EA are now "reanimating" dead corpses to save on expenses or something .

[talysman]

"A lot of our Simmers have been posting links to PaySitesMustBeDestroyed which is not ok. This site often posts content that is either from our TS2 Store or from partner sites which are pay/subscription based. This is considered linking to pirated content."

I don't think this means TSR is partnered with EA. It probably means the website is partnered with the official Sims website. The quoted comment is about website/bbs policy, not EA's business policy.

[eevilcat]

When I saw a recent gameplay trailer I was stunned at the extent of how much of The Sims 3 has been recycled from The Sims 2. Not surprised, as I figured it would probably happen, but not quite as much as what I saw.

Actually it makes sense to do development using existing content as it's quicker and cheaper. It also gives the target audience a reference point to compare with, which can of course be a bit of a double-edged sword. I'd wait and see just how much of what we're getting in trailers makes it into the final game.

[seelindarun]

Given that the game is still months away at best, anything written is speculative.  If you cared about being perfectly accurate, you couldn't say anything at all.

I think EA lost control of TS2.  At some point, when it is possible to customise skins, lighting, replace every bit of default content, and produce custom animations, it is fair to say the game no longer looks or feels like the one EA shipped.  One of the forgotten requirements of owning a copyright is the owner's responsibility to vigorously defend it against infringement.  If Rolex didn't regularly pursue the vendors of counterfeits, they could actually lose ownership of their mark.

I'm not saying that EA has actually lost anything, nor that it matters now that TS2 is at its end.  No machinima artist has tried to profit using TS2.  However, I think they could probably mount a fair argument in court that they also have a claim to ownership, if all of the visible content is user-created.  From EA's point of view, this is not a position they'd want to find themselves in again with TS3.  While a large and lively community of CC creators does help sell the game, there's also a rational incentive to keep it within limits.

[zherok]

I love the last line of that article, "The announcements come a week after EA said it was cancelling plans to open a new studio in Vancouver and after the company lowered its expectation for revenue and earnings for the 2009 fiscal year." Isn't this tantamount to admitting defeat about TS3 before it even comes out?

You have to consider the size of EA, the Sims alone couldn't sustain the entire company. It's like Activision/Blizzard. Everyone knows WoW is going to be a success, but it's a company bigger than just one game. I would think even a shitty Sims 3 would sell well, at least at first.

[Alex]

When I saw a recent gameplay trailer I was stunned at the extent of how much of The Sims 3 has been recycled from The Sims 2. Not surprised, as I figured it would probably happen, but not quite as much as what I saw.

Actually it makes sense to do development using existing content as it's quicker and cheaper. It also gives the target audience a reference point to compare with, which can of course be a bit of a double-edged sword. I'd wait and see just how much of what we're getting in trailers makes it into the final game.

Oh yes, that's what I thought. Things like the sounds and stuff are probably just placeholders. But the basic mechanics of the UI and game engine seems so similar to The Sims 2...

[J. M. Pescado]

I think EA lost control of TS2.  At some point, when it is possible to customise skins, lighting, replace every bit of default content, and produce custom animations, it is fair to say the game no longer looks or feels like the one EA shipped.  One of the forgotten requirements of owning a copyright is the owner's responsibility to vigorously defend it against infringement.  If Rolex didn't regularly pursue the vendors of counterfeits, they could actually lose ownership of their mark.

It doesn't work that way. Reskinning Microsoft Windoze doesn't let you claim copyright over it, either.

I'm not saying that EA has actually lost anything, nor that it matters now that TS2 is at its end.  No machinima artist has tried to profit using TS2.  However, I think they could probably mount a fair argument in court that they also have a claim to ownership, if all of the visible content is user-created.  From EA's point of view, this is not a position they'd want to find themselves in again with TS3.  While a large and lively community of CC creators does help sell the game, there's also a rational incentive to keep it within limits.

Doesn't work that way. All your content are belong to EAxis.

[seelindarun]

A EULA is only as good as your ability to defend it in court.  I didn't mean that anyone could claim ownership of the game by modding it.  I meant that if you made a video using TS2, in which all of the creative content was user-created esp. animations, you might be able to claim copyright (in whole or part) of the video.  A test case like that is only feasible because EA permitted a massive quantity and variety of CC to be made in the first place.

[zherok]

I don't think even the most customized copy of the Sims 2 would have any chance in court of being mistaken for a different game entirely. Animations in particular aren't terribly common as far as custom content is concerned, and they're usually pretty primitive compared to the originals. Either way, you'd have a hard time avoiding using default animation in a video of any decent length. You could get a whole bunch of custom furniture, grab custom clothes meshes for everyone, use custom eyes, makeup, bajillion polygon hair, and your game would still look close enough to the original that someone only passingly familiar with the thing would know what it was.

[PirateFaafy]

When I saw a recent gameplay trailer I was stunned at the extent of how much of The Sims 3 has been recycled from The Sims 2. Not surprised, as I figured it would probably happen, but not quite as much as what I saw.

Interesting to see the EA spokesperson is called Colin Macrae. Unless EA are now "reanimating" dead corpses to save on expenses or something .

You rang?

[Lorelei]

Wait, what? Colin died?! When did that happen? Bummer!

[zherok]

Colin McRae appears dead, but Colin Mochrie is thankfully still kicking.

[Lorelei]

Colin McRae appears dead, but Colin Mochrie is thankfully still kicking.

DUDE. I was not happy, and was hoping there was a spelling issue at hand. Thanks for the reassurance.

Too much death this week. I are sad cat.

[J. M. Pescado]

Here's a thought: TS3, what is it REALLY? These pictures date from *2005*. They look like *TS3*. *TS2* was supposed to have this. Naturally, it did not. But obviously, these pictures came from SOMETHING. So what is *REALLY* in TS3, hrm? Probably none of the stuff we've seen.

[witch]

That picture makes the sim look much more normally proportioned than the ones we ended up with - except for the waist and hips, which are still too small.

[Tsarina]

That looks A LOT like the Playstation 2 version of TS2. GameSpy may have filed it wrong.

Edit: A friend who plays the game mainly on PS2 just confirmed that that version of the game does, indeed, look like that.

[PirateFaafy]

I can also confirm that those screenshots are from the crappy console version. I would also like to submit that the graphics are far, far worse than anything on the PC Version that didn't come from FeeEssen. Seriously, what the heck is that amorphous silver pod?

[J. M. Pescado]

Consider how much it looks like TS3, though.

[MaryH]

So they're going to make TS3 with stuff they didn't get done for TS2? What a bunch of lazy bastards..they can't even be bothered to make anything new, just remake the stuff they "forgot" to put into TS2 and call it Sims 3!

Yes, quite an achievement-fool all of the sheeple all of the time!

"Hey, kids, you want to see what you didn't get in the last Sims game? Buy the new one, and really screw up your computer with our lousy coding and incredible specs. Don't forget to buy a new rig, as well!"

[spaceface]

Fire-breathing toddlers?