Xenophobia challenge

[Gus Smedstad]

EDIT: Revised rules.

Play on Hard.

You must declare war on any alien race you contact.  You may not trade, perform missions, or otherwise interact with an alien race except as targets.  It's permissible to skulk in the shadows, avoiding contact with known aliens, until you're read to strike.

You may colonize one uninhabited planet.  All other planets must be captured from alien races.  It's permissible to plant more cities on a captured planet, but the planet must be taken from an enemy race.  If you completely exterminate an alien outpost, you may place a new colony on the ruins of the nuked city.

Your goal is to get the Empire 5 Badge.

You may not take the Terraforming tutorial mission.

Saving and reloading in order to refresh the cooldown time on special abilities is also prohibited.

Green (Easy) rules:

You may place monoliths if you like.  You may accept alien surrenders.

You may accept alliances proposed by aliens, provided you did not curry favor with them in any way.  No missions for aliens, and no bribes.

Once allied with a Battle Thrall, you may trade with them and otherwise interact with them normally.

It is suggested but not required that you expand to spinward (counterclockwise).

Black (Harder) rules:

You may not place monoliths.  You may not accept alien surrenders or offers of alliance.  Everyone must die.

Alien colonies must be exterminated, not captured.  Including homeworlds.  Once all alien intelligence has been eliminated from a world, you may found a new colony of your own there.

This precludes use of the Zealot power.  Destructive powers such as the Scientist power are acceptable.

It is suggested but not required that you expand to anti-spinward (clockwise).

OCD versions:

The goal is not to reach Empire 5, but to circle the galaxy until you return your to your homeworld.  No alien empires are permitted except those taken as Thralls in the Green rules.

 - Gus

[Dopp]

I thought the terraforming tutorial comes before the 'trade spice' mission? It's also possible to accept the SETI mission and then re-enter the missions dialogue, discard it and begin the terraforming tutorial.

[Gus Smedstad]

No, I just ran through that section again, and the sequence is:

1. Check out alien wreck.
2. Check out destroyed alien homeworld.
3. Plant your first colony.
4. Contact an alien race.
5. Trade with an alien race.

Just to be clear, if it is possible to dump the Trade mission, doing any further tutorial missions is prohibited for this challenge.  The idea is to force you to go through the terraforming steps the hard way.  It's an interesting limitation that the Heat and Cold adjustments don't come up right away, let alone the free adjustments.

 - Gus

[J. M. Pescado]

You don't need to dump the trade mission in order to terraform: You will be offered this as a mission if you ask them for a mission and they ask you what you want to do. As for "terraforming the hard way", don't bother. There's no point. Without the ability to buy the tools at 50% off, the tools are so massively overpriced that they in no way justify the cost of getting them.

The sequence is "check out alien wreck, check out out destroyed alien homeworld, plant colony, receive mission of your choice". There's no forced mission for contact/trade, and, in fact, as a habitual thing, I actively avoid contact to begin with because once you establish contact, aliens immediately begin expanding into your space and taking your systems. Since you are planning to go on a bloodthirsty rampage and never colonize anyway, the same tools also unlock through the same-levelled Empire badges, which is your goal anyway. This is basically how I got the tools in my Kohr-Ah-style game.

Without the option to colonize, your only income source of worth is going to be through destroying enemy colonies anyway. Each enemy colony destroyed will yield up some 50K in cash. Destroy everything that isn't a homeworld for the loot, invade and take homeworlds, then start monolithing.

[Gus Smedstad]

A Kohr-Ah style game is exactly the intent, perfect description.  In fact I used my Marauder model for my run at the idea.

I don't agree about the terraforming tools being not cost effective.  They're $150K each, for $450K invested in a colony for terraforming, plus $450K in Colony paks (since we can't get those at a discount either), plus $750K in buildings yields 6 spice / minute.  Total investment is $1,650K, of which you get a discount of $450K - 27% - if you deal with aliens.  If you choose a decent color and get $20k / spice, that's $120k / minute, or 13 minutes to recoup your original investment.  After that, the profit is tremendous.

I think anyone who has played Space for any length of time knows colonies are worthwhile in terms of income, and tacking on the cost of terraforming, even at full price, doesn't change that.

I assume by monolithing, you mean dropping them in order to present more targets.  Even that doesn't make much sense in the context of the challenge.  You're the Kohr-Ah.  You hate and fear all other sentient life.  Making more is something the Kzer-Za might do, but the Kohr-Ah?  Never.  So, to be perfectly clear, monoliths are prohibited.

It's too bad you can't make battle thralls.  Sure, the alien empires will sue for peace if you destroy enough worlds, but that's not the same as utter surrender.  I suppose if we turn a blind eye to it, the Kzer-Za variant would run like this: you are permitted friendly relations with aliens provided you've gone to war with them and gotten the "peace, peace!" dialog after doing enough invading.  The big problem is that you have to curry favor afterward by doing missions or something, because all you get is "neutral" after whacking them around, not "groveling in fear."  Doing favors for aliens seems out of character for either Urquan faction.

 - Gus

[J. M. Pescado]

A Kohr-Ah style game is exactly the intent, perfect description.  In fact I used my Marauder model for my run at the idea.

Your idea is a bit more hybridized, though. In my Kohr-Ah game, I do not monolith, but I do colonize freely over the bones of my enemies. Plus I also destroy all other sentients, whereas your game does not specifically require the annihilation of all non-Ur-Quan.

I don't agree about the terraforming tools being not cost effective.  They're $150K each, for $450K invested in a colony for terraforming, plus $450K in Colony paks (since we can't get those at a discount either), plus $750K in buildings yields 6 spice / minute.

150K each is a lot of money, when you consider that you will end up burning at LEAST 4-5 on average per colony to wrangle 3 Terras out of them, and in the meantime your colony is basically totally worthless.

Total investment is $1,650K, of which you get a discount of $450K - 27% - if you deal with aliens.

Well, except you don't, in your game..

If you choose a decent color and get $20k / spice, that's $120k / minute, or 13 minutes to recoup your original investment.  After that, the profit is tremendous.

I think anyone who has played Space for any length of time knows colonies are worthwhile in terms of income, and tacking on the cost of terraforming, even at full price, doesn't change that.

I assume by monolithing, you mean dropping them in order to present more targets.  Even that doesn't make much sense in the context of the challenge.  You're the Kohr-Ah.  You hate and fear all other sentient life.  Making more is something the Kzer-Za might do, but the Kohr-Ah?  Never.  So, to be perfectly clear, monoliths are prohibited.

Ah, but *THAT* was not specified in the original. I was just saying that a variation on this was similar to the Kohr-Ah game. But in the Kohr-Ah game, there is no prohibition against colonizing, like there is in yours. YOURS was different.

It's too bad you can't make battle thralls.

The monolith can make battle thralls. It's all about using those primitives as slaves. The +50 rel you get for "you uplifted us" is enough to all but guarantee an instant alliance. Useful if you're going green instead of black.

[Gus Smedstad]

Your idea is a bit more hybridized, though. In my Kohr-Ah game, I do not monolith, but I do colonize freely over the bones of my enemies. Plus I also destroy all other sentients, whereas your game does not specifically require the annihilation of all non-Ur-Quan.

I'm fine with both ideas, actually, but I was trying to avoid loopholes.

If you're allowed unlimited colonization, some weenie might achieve the Empire 5 badge while only exterminating races that were convenient to eliminate.  I was hoping the "only one new colony" rule would force the player to actually prosecute wars with the proper amount of bloodthirst.

The intent is definitely the anhillation of all non Ur-Quan, but how do you enforce that rule?  "All aliens must be exterminated as soon as possible" is fuzzy and open to interpretation.

150K each is a lot of money, when you consider that you will end up burning at LEAST 4-5 on average per colony to wrangle 3 Terras out of them, and in the meantime your colony is basically totally worthless.

I rarely burn more than 3 to get T3.  Actually, T2's are perfectly acceptable, since you can maximize economic output from cities once you get T2 provided you ignore turrets.  Turrets are nice to have, but not vital for defense.  The main drawback is that T2 only stores 10 spice, or 20 with a storage unit.

Yes, $150K is a lot of money, but you do get it back relatively quickly.

Total investment is $1,650K, of which you get a discount of $450K - 27% - if you deal with aliens.

Well, except you don't, in your game..

True, I was just saying that in general, losing the alien discount isn't prohibitive.  The alien discount is highly desirable when not playing this challenge, but it's not a deal breaker.

Ah, but *THAT* was not specified in the original. I was just saying that a variation on this was similar to the Kohr-Ah game. But in the Kohr-Ah game, there is no prohibition against colonizing, like there is in yours. YOURS was different.

True, I didn't specify it in the original rules.  Consider it a loophole that's closed.

The monolith can make battle thralls. It's all about using those primitives as slaves. The +50 rel you get for "you uplifted us" is enough to all but guarantee an instant alliance. Useful if you're going green instead of black.

Good point.  I was just thinking about slaves acquired in battle.  The Space stage doesn't really have the "cower mode" from the Creature stage, requiring surrender at gunpoint still leaves you with a significant negative relationship score, and they'll continue to attack you.  Gaining a species as a battle thrall after vaporizing their colonies requires behavior that's out of character.

 - Gus

[J. M. Pescado]

If you're allowed unlimited colonization, some weenie might achieve the Empire 5 badge while only exterminating races that were convenient to eliminate. I was hoping the "only one new colony" rule would force the player to actually prosecute wars with the proper amount of bloodthirst.

The intent is definitely the anhillation of all non Ur-Quan, but how do you enforce that rule?  "All aliens must be exterminated as soon as possible" is fuzzy and open to interpretation.

Well, sure, if you limit yourself to Empire 5 as goal, that might be so. What happens if the goal is more properly Ur-Quan, though: Traverse the galaxy in the anti-spinward direction while exterminating all sentient life encountered, completing the challenge when you make it all the way around? The original challenge as written is not specifically Ur-Quan. If you want to make it an Ur-Quan challenge, you should start with specific Ur-Quan goals.

I rarely burn more than 3 to get T3.  Actually, T2's are perfectly acceptable, since you can maximize economic output from cities once you get T2 provided you ignore turrets.  Turrets are nice to have, but not vital for defense.  The main drawback is that T2 only stores 10 spice, or 20 with a storage unit.

An undefended planet produces basically no output because it gets bombed flat within 5 minutes.

[Gus Smedstad]

What happens if the goal is more properly Ur-Quan, though: Traverse the galaxy in the anti-spinward direction while exterminating all sentient life encountered, completing the challenge when you make it all the way around?

What most likely happens is that no one actually attempts it.  Difficult is good, but tedious is not.

An undefended planet produces basically no output because it gets bombed flat within 5 minutes.

That's not my experience.  If I respond promptly to enemy attacks, generally I don't lose anything.  The only planets I've actually lost have been T0 outposts.  A single city plus no buildings does get smashed pretty quickly.  And I'm speaking not just of ordinary play, but a game where I pissed everyone off because I was playing by the rules of this challenge.

Returning to the Battle Thralls: I stopped exterminating things when I hit Empire 5 and started working on other badges.  Not that my xenophobic Primes had suddenly developed a liking for other races, but because I wanted to get the Zealot Hero acheivement, and straight conquest wasn't getting me the points.  Anyway, I had an alien empire I had never contacted offer me an alliance.  +30 for "we like new acquaintances," +10 for "Gracious Greeter," and +51 for "You scare the shit out of us," aka "we value your friendship."

Alliances with no concessions to lesser lifeforms seems within the spirit.

I'm going to edit my original post to reflect new rules.

 - Gus

[Zazazu]

Ha, all my militaristic race has gotten so far along that line is a negative 15 for feeling threatened by me. Obviously, I then gave them a reason to.

I'm not playing quite the way this challenge is, but I've been killing all empires that aren't immediately friendly to me.