SimSheet (a sim-tracking program) [Now with Aspiration and LTW tracking!]

[rufio]

Ok, just checking.  I imagine it would probably just be something that the user could enter by hand if they wanted.

ETA:  Well, I figured the images out - I just had to put the plugins into the right magic subfolder.     New version up.

[katemonster]

I am having problems with family ties. For whatever reason, the first sim alphabetically in my list (who happens to be a cat) gets listed as the child of about 14 different sims, and I have to find all of them and remove him as a child. Bigger problem is that all my manual changes to family ties disappear every time I close and re-open the program. Other changes (added sims, added images) are saved when I save the list, but family ties don't seem to be.

[rufio]

Oh damn.  That was what was happening to someone else earlier when they were having trouble loading savefiles.  Is this a neighborhood you imported?  Were the family ties correct when you first imported (before you saved)?  Is there at least one sim in the list who has a household name listed?

ETA:  Never mind, found the problem (not enough curly braces).  When I finish what I'm doing I'll reupload.

ETA2: New version up, incorporating Inge's suggestion and fixing the family ties problem.

[Mmmary]

Hey! I was one of the more obsessive users of the late Sims2DB, until I got a new computer and carefully backupped and moved everything else TS2-related except my precious database. D: So this is fantastic news! I play in a fairly strict rotation and generally like to be a big control freak with my game, but this notebook hell that I've been running lately isn't really cutting it.

I wouldn't mind the link to the 0.73 QA, unless you need to be super computer savvy to be of any real use in this project? My neighbourhood consists of ~600 slightly incestuous and ACR-ridden sims; I've been playing it for about three years and it's bound to have some interesting quirks.

[birene]

Very cool little program rufio, thanks for making it. 

I guess it's not possible to make the ages import "custom compatible"? Since I use an agecon override of 3-6-6-44 insted of 3-7-14-29 the life stages are all wonky. For example my adult Sims with 31 days left until elder are shown as teens with two days left until adult.

Other than that I have no complains and will go play around with it some more now.

[Inge]

Surely Rufio has started using just the lifestage and daysleft fields already?  We have all tried to tell her it's the only way that the tool can accurately reflect where our sims are at in our individual games.

[tunaisafish]

I believe that's one of the changes she's doing now
I've lost the post now but it's the one in this threadexplaining where she's going to be saving more fields, and therefore changing the savefile version.
V0.5 only has one field for age, which worked fine for the original manual entry and default age lengths.

[rufio]

I guess it's not possible to make the ages import "custom compatible"? Since I use an agecon override of 3-6-6-44 insted of 3-7-14-29 the life stages are all wonky. For example my adult Sims with 31 days left until elder are shown as teens with two days left until adult.

It isn't now, but this will be a feature of the next savefile.  Reworking everything to do it the way the game does it is possible, but would involve major rewriting of code, so I am doing it differently; every sim will have values that modify the age transitions + or - some number of days; you can set these globally or for each sim individually, so every sim will be able to have their own aging paradigm.  Since this involves more fields in the sim records, it's going to need a new savefile, which is the only reason I haven't done it already.

[tunaisafish]

Doesn't SimPE export the numbers required for this to happen automagically?

[rufio]

If you mean that it exports lifestage and days until transition, it does.  However, if I store it that way in my program, then it would be more difficult to calculate the exact number of days old.  There is still the matter of how the game figures out the age of elders, which no one has yet clarified.

My way, we just keep age as a simple integer (which is much easier to do operations on) and have the age transition points be mobile.  Problem solved, without losing the "days old" calculation.

[rufio]

Alright, new version up, this time with a working aspiration tab.  (Arrgh, that GUI was more annoying than all the GUI parts of the whole rest of the program!)  Unless there is some kind of hideous bug in it, I won't be updating it again until v0.6 is finished.

Code:

11/29/08
Last projected update of v0.5.
- Aspiration page works, with tracking for aspiration and LTW over the course
of the sim's life.  Sims imported from SimPE will have numbers for LTWs; Inge
tells me this will change eventually.
- Made a minor change that should hopefully make longer lists load faster.

[Inge]

Rufio, I am sure most of your users would find it more useful to know days left than days lived.  Why can't you display *actual* days left as a seperate field, as an alternative for those players who would prefer it?  You don't have to do any calcs on it just display it as SimPE gives it to you.  It's all very well getting them to tediously enter these individual global variables, but they also have to remember who has had elixir, who has used SimBlender or Merola etc etc. 

[rufio]

I wouldn't count sims that use elixer as having gained 3 days so much as moved backwards 3 days.  My program already displays days left if you prefer, anyway, and I think it actually does it by default.  Keeping a whole separate variable just for the days left of elders imported from SimPE doesn't seem worth it - you wouldn't have that information for non-imported elders, anyway.  The purpose behind the "days left" display is to match what it says in game, which, in the case of elders, is in fact "days old".  So that's what's displayed.

[Inge]

Oh I didn't know you also display daysleft in the raw. Fair enough.

[rufio]

Unless there is some kind of hideous bug in it, I won't be updating it again until v0.6 is finished.

I should really not say things like that - it just invites something to go wrong.

A new version is up; I fixed a problem with the percents not displaying right in some cases, and made it so that if you don't have FT, you don't see the secondary aspirations.  I thought about making it so that if you don't have Uni you don't see the LTWs, but since the whole point of this page is (mostly) the LTWs, I figured there was no point, really.  I also noticed some crashing that happened semi-randomly after deleting an aspiration, and as in hindsight I'm not convinced they should be deletable anyway, I've taken the lazy man's way out and disabled the delete button.

[tunaisafish]

Rufio, I was under the impression that your program displayed data from the game.
To follow up directly after Inge's post and not say anything about the issue appears 'dishonest'.

If you mean that it exports lifestage and days until transition, it does.  However, if I store it that way in my program, then it would be more difficult to calculate the exact number of days old.  There is still the matter of how the game figures out the age of elders, which no one has yet clarified.

Life stage and days left are the key values.  If you store nothing else for age, you store these.
Otherwise you end up with bugs like...

For example my adult Sims with 31 days left until elder are shown as teens with two days left until adult.

(emphasis mine)

Doing it properly will also handle the different pets properly using the same code.
You could then also include the days until death for elders.

My way, we just keep age as a simple integer (which is much easier to do operations on) and have the age transition points be mobile.  Problem solved, without losing the "days old" calculation.

Your way is akin to training a guarddog and then barking yourself.
Of the people that I've spoken to about SimSheet, their interest is fueled by that fact that they can import the data via SimPE.
I don't know anyone that wants to play the SimSheet game.

The purpose behind the "days left" display is to match what it says in game, which, in the case of elders, is in fact "days old".  So that's what's displayed.

No it isn't.  It's your interpretation of Days old.  Will your code spot buggy elders that say they are 5 days old?  No.
How can you say this as fact, when you state above that noone has clarified this for you?
Here's the clarification you need.  It's PrevAgeDays + AgeDuration - AgeDaysLeft

There are also some bugs in your attempted CSV handling code.  That was expected though.  We all knew it was a hard thing to get right.
There are enough links in this thread already pointing the way to clean and tested code in that area.

While you are rewriting the savefile version, have you considered that you already have it in the form of the SimPE output?

[rufio]

Rufio, I was under the impression that your program displayed data from the game.
To follow up directly after Inge's post and not say anything about the issue appears 'dishonest'.

It does - that is, if you import from SimPE.  It just stores the information slightly differently, but ideally that shouldn't affect what is displayed.

Life stage and days left are the key values.  If you store nothing else for age, you store these.
Otherwise you end up with bugs like...

For example my adult Sims with 31 days left until elder are shown as teens with two days left until adult.

(emphasis mine)

Doing it properly will also handle the different pets properly using the same code.
You could then also include the days until death for elders.

I will consider it - the problem is that I have no way to predict when elders will die and the days until death for them will always (or nearly always) be wrong.  Also, I will have to rewrite a lot of old code, which is not usually a good thing.

Your way is akin to training a guarddog and then barking yourself.
Of the people that I've spoken to about SimSheet, their interest is fueled by that fact that they can import the data via SimPE.
I don't know anyone that wants to play the SimSheet game.

I understand - but as I said, if it is working properly it should display ages the same way the game does, even if it stores information somewhat differently.

How can you say this as fact, when you state above that noone has clarified this for you?
Here's the clarification you need.  It's PrevAgeDays + AgeDuration - AgeDaysLeft

Yes, but the problem is that this age duration is not always the same for elders, and while there may be some field in the SimPE output that has it, it's not possible to determine it from non-imported elders or elders that age up from being adults at all.

There are also some bugs in your attempted CSV handling code.  That was expected though.  We all knew it was a hard thing to get right.
There are enough links in this thread already pointing the way to clean and tested code in that area.

What bugs are you having?  If I don't know what they are, I can't fix them.  If there were an easily usable CSV library that I could use, I would use it, but I have not found any such thing that does not require that I use as MS product.

While you are rewriting the savefile version, have you considered that you already have it in the form of the SimPE output?

My program does not use all the information in the SimPE output, and it has to store lots of other information too, like the settings, and it stores things in different ways than the SimPE output does.

I will look things over and see if it's more feasible to change the way ages are stored or keep it the same.  Some of this information you could find out for yourself, as you have access to the code and I think you know enough to understand it.

[tunaisafish]

I think the main problem here is having both the manual and live data entry.
It's probably not possible to keep both without compromising the data.

You did a great job with the manual data entry before the SimPE data was available.
You now have easy access to the real game data.  It seems a pity to waste that.

Elders get a visit from Grimmy when the AgeDaysLeft reaches zero.  Easy to predict.
Although they may get an extra day or more from the genie wish.  There's randomness involved, so impossible to predict that.

Did you try libcsv?  That's LGPL code.
The csv bugs were related to a double quotation not being reduced to a single quotation on input,
and a comma following a quotation within a data field.
The first is minor, the latter causes a crash.

The advantage of using the SimPE output as a starting point for the next savefile would be that it will be the last ever time you need to do it.
Add all the features to SimSheet you want and noone needs to start fresh because of a savefile version.
Add extra 'simsheet_*' headers for your extra data.
Add an extra row on the first line for a dummy_sim to contain settings if you must.  Although program settings should really be in a config file.

I'll pass on the opportunity to look at your code   I've enough projects on the go of my own that already stretch my free time.

Before you start writing the new savefile, it's probably worth taking some time out to reflect what it is you want SimSheet to be.
The Who What Why When of SimSheet, then the How will be more obvious.

[rufio]

I think the main problem here is having both the manual and live data entry.
It's probably not possible to keep both without compromising the data.

Well, part of the idea I had with the manual data entry is that you could keep track of things as they happened over time.  I don't want to lose that, but I suppose there could be some compromise.

Did you try libcsv?  That's LGPL code.

Thanks, I will look that up.  I am self-taught, so I sometimes wind up not knowing things I should, like STL classes and whatnot.

The csv bugs were related to a double quotation not being reduced to a single quotation on input,
and a comma following a quotation within a data field.
The first is minor, the latter causes a crash.

Why does the double quote need to be changed to a single quote?  Or did you mean the other way around?  I don't know all of the csv conventions, but I also don't know that Inge is following them either.
With the ", there is no way for the program to tell that that is meant to be inside a field instead of denoting the end of it.  I'm not sure why it would cause a crash, but it definitely wouldn't parse correctly.

Add all the features to SimSheet you want and noone needs to start fresh because of a savefile version.

No one needs to start afresh now - I keep the code for parsing the old savefiles and you can always load files as a previous format instead.

Add extra 'simsheet_*' headers for your extra data.
Add an extra row on the first line for a dummy_sim to contain settings if you must.  Although program settings should really be in a config file.

There's also all the extra stuff from the tabs that has to be kept track of.

Before you start writing the new savefile, it's probably worth taking some time out to reflect what it is you want SimSheet to be.
The Who What Why When of SimSheet, then the How will be more obvious.

I wanted it to be a way to keep track of sims, their stats, what they did, the order they did it in, and the general state of the neighborhood.  I think some people want slightly different things out of it than I do, which is ok, since it can do multiple things.

[tunaisafish]

Why does the double quote need to be changed to a single quote?  Or did you mean the other way around?  I don't know all of the csv conventions, but I also don't know that Inge is following them either.
With the ", there is no way for the program to tell that that is meant to be inside a field instead of denoting the end of it.  I'm not sure why it would cause a crash, but it definitely wouldn't parse correctly.

Peter is outputting correct csv through SimPE, and Excel is loading it just fine.
Sorry about that explanation, an example would be clearer.
I did post a link to the rfc previously so that should clear up any confusion.

Below is a single field...
"The guy who writes SimPe is ""Peter"", Inge's hubby"
As that contains quotes, they have been escaped with a quote.

[rufio]

Ahh, I see.  I'll fix that before I start on the new savefile.

[Inge]

I will consider it - the problem is that I have no way to predict when elders will die and the days until death for them will always (or nearly always) be wrong.

The days left for elders is as accurate and predictive as days left in any other age stage.  The player or the game can always intervene and add or subtract days - for example by simply forgetting to put a fridge in the house.   daysleft is a data field not a prediction.  But it's the only real one we have - the only real one the game has - so you might as well let your users know the deal.

What I would suggest is that the fields provided by SimPE are displayed as is (those that are of interest), and *additionally* provide several fields per sim for the player to make notes in, which are not touched by the importing of data.  If you are able to use colour in your display fields you could use that to make it clear which are the hard-imported fields, which you are calculating, and which are player-input fields that will not be changed by your processes.

[rufio]

What I mean is that unless the elder is imported as an elder from SimPE, I won't have that.  If I create them manually, I won't have that.  If I import them as an adult, I won't have that when they transition.

I'm not sure what you're talking about with color coding.  The fields in the savefile correspond to various different variables in SimSheet, which appear in different tabs in different ways.  Only the ones that are actually relevant to the game data are changed when importing, but if, say, you wanted to keep track of when two sims got married with SimSheet, you would have to enter that manually, on the update tab; if you just reimported everything from SimPE so that now they were marked as being married (or changed it in the family tab) then that record wouldn't be there.

[Kyna]

What I mean is that unless the elder is imported as an elder from SimPE, I won't have that.  If I create them manually, I won't have that.  If I import them as an adult, I won't have that when they transition.

But wouldn't that be updated the next time you did a SimPE import?

With Sims2DB, every time I imported data from SimPE (which I did after each play session), the relevant data for each sim would update.  I believe it matched the sims using the unique identifier for each sim already mentioned by Inge in this thread.  The first time you did an import, it would attempt to match any manually entered sims to the imported data and if it couldn't do so, it would ask you to match them.

[rufio]

If you continually update, yes.