Request for alternative No-20K handout

[Inge]

Pescado, sweetheart, can I make a request please?  Can you do a version of no-20k-handout that instead of calculating a fair amount, actually lets the player decide an amount?   I would still like it to deduct from the family funds of course, but it would make it more felxible for parents who want to completely overindulge one child (or for a "lodger" who should really leave with nothing)

[mildlydisguised]

I would like to second this request.  I have to fiddle around with the money orders until I am satisfied that everyone has the correct amount.  It would be much less hassle to choose upon move out.

[eevilcat]

I'll third it. That sound a nice, clean, neat solution that we can tailor to individual sim circumstances.

[Zazazu]

Forth it. Right now, I'm doing transfers to the savings accounts using Monique's computer. It's ok, but something with a field I can just put the amount in would be great when I'm stuck giving some kid $39k.

[talysman]

Forth it.

It's nice to see more Forth programmers getting involved with the Sims!

[imyourboy]

Not that I talk much but I'll take the fifth!!! 

[Liz]

That's a great idea, Inge. It would make it especially rewarding (or, in some cases, *not* rewarding) for college graduates to leave with the monies they earned while in college and/or were given by their family as a grad gift.

[J. M. Pescado]

Pescado, sweetheart, can I make a request please?  Can you do a version of no-20k-handout that instead of calculating a fair amount, actually lets the player decide an amount?   I would still like it to deduct from the family funds of course, but it would make it more felxible for parents who want to completely overindulge one child (or for a "lodger" who should really leave with nothing)

I will consider how this could be implemented. The game really isn't too good about receiving arbitrary user input, though. The traditional way to handle funds distribution if you need better control is to use the old Money Order object or inventory-barter.

[Zazazu]

Forth it.

It's nice to see more Forth programmers getting involved with the Sims!

Heh. At least my typo was a real word. 

[SnootCB]

What about a slider thingamajig, like the one used when buying groceries or paying the gypsy?  That way a sim moving out of the lot could have any amount in the range of nothing to all of the household funds.  Perhaps whatever system the gypsy uses could be modified for this purpose.  But since I'm not a modder, I'm pretty much blowing smoke out my butt.  I've never even used the money order thing; I usually just stash expensive "gifts" in inventory for extra cash.

[J. M. Pescado]

What about a slider thingamajig, like the one used when buying groceries or paying the gypsy?  That way a sim moving out of the lot could have any amount in the range of nothing to all of the household funds.  Perhaps whatever system the gypsy uses could be modified for this purpose.  But since I'm not a modder, I'm pretty much blowing smoke out my butt.

The problem is that the range of monies involved exceeds the integer range alotted to those dialog formats.

I've never even used the money order thing; I usually just stash expensive "gifts" in inventory for extra cash.

Yeah, the money-order thing predates NL, though, so this was in the age of inventorylessness.

[SnootCB]

What about a slider thingamajig, like the one used when buying groceries or paying the gypsy?  That way a sim moving out of the lot could have any amount in the range of nothing to all of the household funds.  Perhaps whatever system the gypsy uses could be modified for this purpose.  But since I'm not a modder, I'm pretty much blowing smoke out my butt.

The problem is that the range of monies involved exceeds the integer range alotted to those dialog formats.

*shrugs* Oh, well.  Reason #372 why I rely on modders that are more awesome than me to do the real thinking.

[jfade]

What about a slider thingamajig, like the one used when buying groceries or paying the gypsy?  That way a sim moving out of the lot could have any amount in the range of nothing to all of the household funds.  Perhaps whatever system the gypsy uses could be modified for this purpose.  But since I'm not a modder, I'm pretty much blowing smoke out my butt.

The problem is that the range of monies involved exceeds the integer range alotted to those dialog formats.

Couldn't you show the dialog repeatedly until the user submits it with a value of 0? Like you could have it go from 0 to 30k, then if they wanted to give 50k, they select 30, then 20, then 0? Or wouldn't that work? I'm not sure because I've honestly never used that dialog before in any hack attempts.

[Inge]

Pescado, I already have a BHAV for users to choose a flexible number - using More and Less to change in increments.  If you like I can adapt it for this purpose, with suitable parameter intake and Temp returns, and you can call it from your existing No-20-K at suitable points?  It would save you having to redesign the wheel, and me having to try and work out HTF all that moving out stuff works

For instance...

Parameters:
1) Suggested thousands (from your normal no-20k calculations)
2) Suggested units (from your normal no-20k calculations)
3) Max thousands
4) Max units

Returns
T0 = requested thousands
T1 = requested units

[J. M. Pescado]

This sounds amazingly Byzantine and backwards. I suspect there's a better way. I could just make the amount of money taken equal to zero, and therefore, the amount of money the character possesses after moving out is equal to zero + the value of sculptures and paintings in his inventory if any sculptures or paintings are present in the inventory. Therefore, you can then decide how much money he takes with him through the simple expedient of stuffing crap into their inventory. Given that players already behave in such a manner, this is quite simple and natural. Is there really any other reason someone would stuff buy mode sculptures into their inventory anyway?

[Inge]

The problem with doing that is the sculptures are not available from the bin in order to buy homes.

Actually my suggested function is a perfectly good solution, and you know it    I don't know why we never built up a community global library in the first place.

[J. M. Pescado]

The problem with doing that is the sculptures are not available from the bin in order to buy homes.

That is why they would be automatically converted to cash. You didn't seriously think I didn't plan that part ahead, did you?

Actually my suggested function is a perfectly good solution, and you know it    I don't know why we never built up a community global library in the first place.

I am uncertain how you would implement it in a manner that is not a Byzantine mess of pop-up dialogs. The other reliable method of instantly extracting an arbitrary positive integer of cash-grade size is to use the OFB custom pricing dialog. This is easy enough to do, but unpretty and confusing, which is why I only use this method inside of debugging controls where relatively seamless function and accurate presentation are not critical.

The Sculptures method, on the other hand, meshes with the natural behavior of how players already behave. While not as seamless as an properly formatted dialog, it is still better than something jerky, disjointed, and clunky.

[Inge]

The reason the sculpture idea as currently used would not suit me is that I use that mechanism to give my sims *personal* wealth, and don't want it automatically converted into household funds.  Or did you mean you would use a specially created object for this purpose?  In that case I think that's a reasonable plan.

The Byzantine stuff isn't too bad in operation; the user clicks "More" or "Less" and the dialog rebuilds so quickly with the newly incremented amount that it's as if it simply refreshed the number.   Once they click "Accept", the amount they stopped on is simply picked up by the caller.

[J. M. Pescado]

The reason the sculpture idea as currently used would not suit me is that I use that mechanism to give my sims *personal* wealth, and don't want it automatically converted into household funds.  Or did you mean you would use a specially created object for this purpose?  In that case I think that's a reasonable plan.

I do not understand. Sims do not distinguish clearly between "personal" wealth and "household" wealth. Upon a sim's arrival into a new household, all funds enter the pool. They only meaningful concept of "personal" wealth is in tracking earned income for want and memory satisfaction, but these track only gross earnings, not net earnings, and do not track expenditures at all, so a single sim can "personally earn" an infinite quantity of money.

The sculpture method, even without a custom specialty sculpture, would therefore simply drain money from the originating household (cost of purchasing sculptures to stuff into the mover-out's inventory), and when you then move out that sim, be automatically converted into household funds of the new household (so you can buy a new home). "Personal" wealth is meaningless in such a case because a sim cannot exist independently of a household. If the sim is the sole resident of a household, the household wealth IS his personal wealth. If he is NOT the sole resident, because you moved multiple sims out as a unit, individual wealth is still meaningless because they are in single household and therefore inseperable from each other until you place them on a lot somewhere.

An example follows:
Sims A, B, C, and D are in household 1 and have $100K NW (and probably less in cash). You wish to move out sim D with $50K. Therefore, you buy $50K worth of statuary and cram them into D's inventory. Household is now down $50K cash. Sim D has 50K worth of crappy statues in his inventory. You move him out. Sim D splits off to form household 2, with the 50K of statues now converted to cash so you can actually buy a lot. Household 2 now has $50K NW (they are homeless, so their worth is in cash only) and consists of solely sim D. Household 1 now consists only of Sims A, B, and C, wirth 50K NW (and their house, so somewhat less in cash).

Another example:
Same starting situation, but you wish to move out Sims C and D. If you move out sims C and D in a single moveout, it does not matter how you distribute the statues. They will still ultimately form household 2 with 50K NW deducted from the original household 1. Individual wealth is not a meaningful concept in Sims. It does not matter if you distributed the statues with 30K for C and 20K for D. They still form a single household with 50K. You would have to move them out SEPERATELY so they form seperate households.

In conclusion, what you are talking about makes no real sense in the context of the game, and amounts to nothing more than personal bookkeeping because you feel sim C is entitled to more of the household pot than D, which is precisely what the proposal supports....if they move out. If they don't move out, this is meaningless and the division exists only on paper, a purely artificial seperation recognized by nothing in the game.

[Inge]

I think many people would not want all wall-hanging and floor-standing decorative objects removed from their Sim's inventories.  Quite apart from some that may have a meaning to the individual sim's storyline, personal book keeping as you describe it, by statue count, is useful as a long-term saving plan.  It would be a nuisance to have to remember what each sim had and restore it.

Example:  Two adult sims move out of a house together.  One is going to be a mere lodger and move out once he has enough wealth to do so.  Why would we want his personal inventory items to go towards buying the house when he's meant to be saving them to buy his own house one day?

[Tigerlilley]

I would also like this hack.  I have one by Kathy and Eric that is the grocery popup, except it's used to get rid of too much money

[Inge]

It's so little extra work to make a special object for this purpose - heck it can "borrow" the model from an existing Maxis object - and leaves so much more flexibility open to the user.

[BastDawn]

If you used the sculptures-in-inventory method, could you apply it only to non-crafted decorative items?  It would be a shame to lose custom paintings and snapdragons, but otherwise, it sounds good.

[Zazazu]

My sims have a lot of heirlooms, so that method makes me nervous. So far, they are only passing down craftables, paintings, awards, and photos. I think everything else I have are painting recolors so they don't technically have to be carried with.

[Inge]

If you used the sculptures-in-inventory method, could you apply it only to non-crafted decorative items?  It would be a shame to lose custom paintings and snapdragons, but otherwise, it sounds good.

Even then it could be a problem, because modders often create an item from a decorative item (to stop it doing stuff) but it might not be meant as a statue.  For example, what about my prisoner token, which is useful with TJ's Visitor Controller?  Stuff like that might be lost at moveout too.  It's so simple to just make a specific item with its own GUID that it seems a shame to lose so much flexibility just for a detail.