How do I wean myself off of snapdragons?

[Ellatrue]

Granted, IT SHOULD NOT TAKE AN HOUR TO PEE.

[EsotericPolarBear]

I was concerned about this issue.  My game is full of so many hacks(by the way, make it so enjoyable) that I was wondering if I could play without hacks.  That is probably the main reason that I bought Lifestories.  I play hack free and it is nice to know that I don't have to play with hacks if I don't want to--but it is way better with hacks.  I don't see snapdragons as being that bad-I put one on each nightstand and they wake up refreshed instead of waking up like they had just ran a marathon in their sleep.  If you still want them to eat breakfast together and you have the InSIMinator then make them have 50% hunger lost and then they will eat breakfast. With snapdragons, you will be able to manage their needs in a normal way.

Really, I think the need to mood ratio is just off.  I mean, when I wake up in the morning, I need to piss and take a shower, then eat breakfast...but I don't wake up grouchy and depressed just because I have to do the morning routine (and said routine doesn't take me three hours)

Maybe there's a happy medium somewhere out there...

I just don't understand what your problem is. I think that most of us would agree that handling our sims' needs is a manageable and fairly easy process. You've received a lot of excellent advice, and if you try this stuff I am sure that you will find that it isn't actually that hard. I am getting the sense that you really just want to complain about the game.

I'm not saying that I have trouble managing their needs anymore (I think I've actually got a handle on it, even without JM's wonderful macros, thanks to advice here).  I just disagree with the setup on principle.  I'm not complaining, just discussing.  Am I not allowed to disagree with and discuss game mechanics?

[ZiggyDoodle]

Since you disagree with certain mechanics of the game, then go cold turkey and stop using whatever mod irks you.  Just discussing your angst won't accomplish anything.  Do something about it.

I personally love the snapdragons and have them set up in each bedroom.  It's always nice to get a good night's rest. 

[Zazazu]

Granted, IT SHOULD NOT TAKE AN HOUR TO PEE.

Yes but then, WE'D HAVE THE ENSUING TIME FILLED WITH WATER BALLOON FIGHTS!

Should'a would'a could'a, the game is what it is. It's insanely easy to control a full family of sims if you pay some fracking attention, even in an unmodified game. I have no sympathy. Try a 4-adult, 15 child (including 3 toddlers) Free Love Cult house. Then go back to a simple family, and everything seems ridiculously easy. Heck, I've been giving my sims every other day off from being told what to do (excepting caring for babies). If they have to piss badly enough, they'll go...even without BathroomUsesYou, which I don't use. Only sloppy sims will walk around stinking, which is fine...they are SLOPPY. And as long as the refrigerator is stocked, they won't starve. Quite the opposite. Burn down the house, sure, but that's what water sprinklers and alarms are for.

Anyways. Haven't used a snapdragon since the first month of OFB, and that was only in a ticket-biz. Now, I have Jumbuktu (Jumbuk IV) in a bedroom of one of my sim houses, surrounded by treasure and flowers, but that house isn't even occupied now as crazy died.

[Ellatrue]

You have to admit though, the taking an hour to pee thing is obnoxious. It kind of makes sense for most other things in the game, but the peeing isn't even remotely comparable to real life. "Sympathy" not withstanding, it's ridiculous. Like EA WANTS the bathroom to be occupied at all times, so other sims can't use it, and pee themselves. Call it a pet peeve, but it just drives me crazy.

Ziggy: the poster was talking about the mechanics of the game itself, not the mechanics of a mod. Removing whatever imaginary mod you were thinking of won't fix the problem.    Neither will being rude about it for no reason.

Okay, so if you want to talk about game mechanics: what aspect of the game would you change, without making it too easy? Is there anything that you think should be harder? If it were much easier to fill their needs, I think the game would be a lot less compelling.

[EsotericPolarBear]

You have to admit though, the taking an hour to pee thing is obnoxious. It kind of makes sense for most other things in the game, but the peeing isn't even remotely comparable to real life. "Sympathy" not withstanding, it's ridiculous. Like EA WANTS the bathroom to be occupied at all times, so other sims can't use it, and pee themselves. Call it a pet peeve, but it just drives me crazy.

Ziggy: the poster was talking about the mechanics of the game itself, not the mechanics of a mod. Removing whatever imaginary mod you were thinking of won't fix the problem.    Neither will being rude about it for no reason.

Okay, so if you want to talk about game mechanics: what aspect of the game would you change, without making it too easy? Is there anything that you think should be harder? If it were much easier to fill their needs, I think the game would be a lot less compelling.

IMO, it needs more stuff like Uni and BV to give you goals and such for your sims.  I'd love to see an EP that let you control your sims at work.  I mean, yeah the sandbox of the original game is kinda fun, but sometimes I like having scenarios to beat...hell, that's why you guys have an entire subforum dedicated to challenges...playing just to play gets boring after a while.  And since I'm not much for the storytelling parts of the game, I generally just keep creating new sims and building them up to success and then starting over again.

I mean, on the one hand, juggling the needs of several sims without macro help is a little too hard for me.  On the other hand, the game itself is a little too easy as far as promotions and money and such.  It's like they put the challenge in all the wrong places.  Filling needs should just be a simple thing of remembering to do it.  Getting promoted at work should actually require some user skill instead of skilling and friendships.

But oh well, the game is still addicting as hell.

[J. M. Pescado]

I mean, on the one hand, juggling the needs of several sims without macro help is a little too hard for me.

Juggling the needs of any number of sims is never hard, it just slows your game to a crawl since you have to stop and check everyone manually, turning the game into a stop-motion slideshow.

[EsotericPolarBear]

I mean, on the one hand, juggling the needs of several sims without macro help is a little too hard for me.

Juggling the needs of any number of sims is never hard, it just slows your game to a crawl since you have to stop and check everyone manually, turning the game into a stop-motion slideshow.

Well, it's hard for me to have the patience to do that.    I eventually get tired of it so I just let sims fall into depression.

[Zazazu]

Then keep your families smaller. For all that I can handle a family with 20 members, I definitely don't do so frequently. I think that it took around three hours to play through a day with my largest. Right now, my melded family (everyone's back in the same house due to a death) has two adults, a child in college, two children (one of the couple, the other their nephew), two cats, and a dog. That's honestly larger than I prefer. Celestina keeps trying to get pregnant on me. Thank you, lot debugger. Four sims is a good number, maybe with a pet. When Dylan graduates, he's moving into his own house with his prospective mate and I don't anticipate more than one child.

I'd like to see the Sims melded a bit with the Stories series. I still want all the freedoms we have in the Sims, but I like the options for guided gameplay and incremental goals from Stories.

[ZiggyDoodle]

You have to admit though, the taking an hour to pee thing is obnoxious. It kind of makes sense for most other things in the game, but the peeing isn't even remotely comparable to real life. "Sympathy" not withstanding, it's ridiculous. Like EA WANTS the bathroom to be occupied at all times, so other sims can't use it, and pee themselves. Call it a pet peeve, but it just drives me crazy.

Ziggy: the poster was talking about the mechanics of the game itself, not the mechanics of a mod. Removing whatever imaginary mod you were thinking of won't fix the problem.    Neither will being rude about it for no reason.

Okay, so if you want to talk about game mechanics: what aspect of the game would you change, without making it too easy? Is there anything that you think should be harder? If it were much easier to fill their needs, I think the game would be a lot less compelling.

My comments weren't rude, but to the point.  If you don't like certain mechanics of the game, chances are there's a mod to fix the things that irk you.   If the OP doesn't like using snapdragons, then he/she can stop using them and explore other methods, such as smaller families and other suggestions made here. 

There's no reason to accept everything EA has put on the TS2 plate.

[Ellatrue]

That would have been reasonable, yes. Only you didn't say that.

then go cold turkey and stop using whatever mod irks you

Emphasis mine. Granted, the poster hasn't exactly demonstrated their brilliance, but there's nothing to indicate that they actually ADDED a mod to their game that increases motive decay, and were just complaining instead of removing it.

Maybe Sims 3 will have a greater focus on stuff other than mindlessly filling needs. As it is, however, this game is still based on the original version of the sims, which was ONLY about filling needs. The motives make sense to me though, since it creates something of a coherent simulation for the sims' behavior. I'm not sure how you could change the core gameplay to make it much different.

[J. M. Pescado]

The reason everything takes so long is that sim-time is about 60 times faster than real-time, but sims do not move 60 times faster, instead moving only about as fast as normal people do. Therefore, if activities are made in scale with this, sims would move like they're on speed. This is why something that would take 3 minutes in real life, like walking across the lot, takes 3 hours for sims, meaning that "Run Here" is simply necessary. So when a sim takes an hour to pee, it's performing an activity that in real life takes about a minute.

Unfortunately, time-scaling issues like this afflict all games, and the Sims is no exception. Just look at how a tank is produced in a minute by a factory, in the same time it takes the same tank to drive across your base. It's the typical game-compression effect: Activities requiring microscopic amounts of time or resources take up a disporportionately large amount of it, while things requiring enormously macroscopic amounts take up disproportionately little. Thus, an activity like "peeing" consumes an enormous amount of a sim's proportional time while an activity like "become the CEO of a Microsoft-size corporation" takes up a few days, and a pizza costs $40 while a Lamborghini costs $10000. For this reason sims are at high risk for microscopic failures that just don't happen to real people, like pants-wetting, while easily able to achieve macroscopic successes, like becoming a CEO. While standing in a pool of their own piss.

Also worth noting is that the Sims was originally entirely about peeing. It *WAS* originally The Toilet Game, after all.

[doren]

The reason everything takes so long is that sim-time is about 60 times faster than real-time, but sims do not move 60 times faster, instead moving only about as fast as normal people do. Therefore, if activities are made in scale with this, sims would move like they're on speed. This is why something that would take 3 minutes in real life, like walking across the lot, takes 3 hours for sims, meaning that "Run Here" is simply necessary. So when a sim takes an hour to pee, it's performing an activity that in real life takes about a minute.

Unfortunately, time-scaling issues like this afflict all games, and the Sims is no exception. Just look at how a tank is produced in a minute by a factory, in the same time it takes the same tank to drive across your base. It's the typical game-compression effect: Activities requiring microscopic amounts of time or resources take up a disporportionately large amount of it, while things requiring enormously macroscopic amounts take up disproportionately little. Thus, an activity like "peeing" consumes an enormous amount of a sim's proportional time while an activity like "become the CEO of a Microsoft-size corporation" takes up a few days, and a pizza costs $40 while a Lamborghini costs $10000. For this reason sims are at high risk for microscopic failures that just don't happen to real people, like pants-wetting, while easily able to achieve macroscopic successes, like becoming a CEO. While standing in a pool of their own piss.

That's why players have wished (and repeatedly requested since Sims 1) that there was an option to adjust the timing. I am not too concerned about time issues since I mostly play with aging-off and don't care if my sims stay downtown for 2 days but if I had the choice I would make the day pass slower.

[Count Four]

... Thus, an activity like "peeing" consumes an enormous amount of a sim's proportional time while an activity like "become the CEO of a Microsoft-size corporation" takes up a few days, and a pizza costs $40 while a Lamborghini costs $10000. For this reason sims are at high risk for microscopic failures that just don't happen to real people, like pants-wetting, while easily able to achieve macroscopic successes, like becoming a CEO. While standing in a pool of their own piss.

Also worth noting is that the Sims was originally entirely about peeing. It *WAS* originally The Toilet Game, after all.

They shouldn't have taken out the Toilet Skill.  As it is now, only toddlers can Toilet Skill.  I'd trade Body Skill, or even Cleaning, for Toilet Skill.

[J. M. Pescado]

That's why players have wished (and repeatedly requested since Sims 1) that there was an option to adjust the timing. I am not too concerned about time issues since I mostly play with aging-off and don't care if my sims stay downtown for 2 days but if I had the choice I would make the day pass slower.

The problem with adjusting the "timing" is that the timing is intricately keyed to every time-based aspect of the game, with the game pegged to 1800 ticks to the hour. If you adjusted the timing at THIS point in the game, every single object would get confused! Also, the very nature of the timing is tied to the balance of the game. You would literally have to redo everything. It is nontrivial, even if designed from the very beginning.

They shouldn't have taken out the Toilet Skill.  As it is now, only toddlers can Toilet Skill.  I'd trade Body Skill, or even Cleaning, for Toilet Skill.

Well, I don't think cleaning even existed in Sims 1. What would the Terlet skill do? Enable female sim to pee unaided while standing without dribbling on themselves? Reduce the "dirtiness" level hit for using the terlet while standing?

[Ellatrue]

I still think they take too much time to pee, though. I mean, I pee faster than that in REAL LIFE! It's crazy in sim time and still not a good representation of real time. They just want everyone to wet themselves.

[Count Four]

Well, I don't think cleaning even existed in Sims 1. What would the Terlet skill do? Enable female sim to pee unaided while standing without dribbling on themselves? Reduce the "dirtiness" level hit for using the terlet while standing?

Reduce hygiene impact with every skill point gained. Increase the odds that they'll remember to flush every time. Make them quit worrying about using public toilets. And of course, decrease the odds that they'll end up standing around in puddle of their own piss.

Not to mention that players could create pissing contests between their sims...

No sillier than sim beauty contests, far as I'm concerned.

[dream_operator]

Do people really have this many sims peeing themselves? Or are you all being facetious? XD I haven't had a sim pee themselves for like a year and a half now and I've been playing the game for two years.  And even back in my early days, I only had a very tiny handful pee themselves...and they had added circumstances...such as being pregnant (and it was only one pregnant sim...it was eat or pee and I chose eat. XD) and being a vamp stuck in the sunlight.  And I play without the BUY mod too.  I'm just surprised that players have this much trouble keeping normal sims dry-panted.

~Sid

[Count Four]

Do people really have this many sims peeing themselves? Or are you all being facetious? ...

~Sid

Facetious. I am, anyway. The last time one of my playables peed themselves was when a toddler got off the potty to transition to child; she grew up, then wet herself. I don't find it difficult to avoid the morning potty rush, either.  Half the household gets run through the bathroom routine before bed (and are still green when they wake up), and the other half does the bathroom routine when the wake up.

The only thing irks me slightly is mopping up the puddles when the dormies (under nouniprotect) all decide to pee right in the middle of the kitchen. But I'd rather have peeing, vulnerable dormies (and puddles) than a dorm full of INVINCIBLE PIXEL DEMIGODS.

Just be nice if they went in another room before letting go ...

[J. M. Pescado]

I'm just surprised that players have this much trouble keeping normal sims dry-panted.

The issue mostly vanishes when manual control is taken, but left to themselves, disaster inevitably follows as everyone decides the bathroom is the hottest area to be, and then form a big pileup and are unable to leave or kick anyone out so they can pee, because they absolutely MUST be alone and the nature of sim-stupidity is such that that th moment they have finished an interaction, they resume standing there with vacant expressions on their faces instead of moving away!

[spookymuffin]

Feh, I play with free will on (and often leave my sims to their own devices while I play with one or two individuals) and I have never had a problem with them peeing themselves. I haven't had a playable wet themselves (with the exception of electric shocks and ghost scares) since I first got the game four(?) years ago.

[purplebunny]

Eh, I play with free will on and don't use many macro-type hacks OR snapdragons, and only 1 or 2 households have Jumbok. It really isn't that difficult, and I don't even micromanage all that much. I did have a sim pee herself last night for the first time in ages, but to me that's funny *shrug*.

Honestly, unless a sim is pregnant there isn't much chance they're going to die if you ignore them for five or six sim-hours to tend to another sim. They may decide they don't want to do anything useful, but unless they decide to go hot-tubbing during a thunderstorm, their stupid actions aren't generally suicidal.

[Zazazu]

The most recent sim-peeing I had was Celina, during her death throes. Dad's ghost scared the piss out of her...then everything else. Before then, the only sims I had pee themselves were nannies. I don't use Bathroom Uses You, and I almost never have pile-up issues (since perhaps the first 3 months playing) despite having parties with 15-20 sims. It's all in the design.

[professorbutters]

I don't see peeing themselves all that often, either.  It's either a ghost hitting them, or it was in the asylum (8 sims + one toilet + no control = pee accidents) or when my college house had a munchiebot.  It goes and gets them Chinese food, and that makes their bladder need decay ridiculously fast.  I turned it off.  Easy.

PB