The Challenge Challenge!

[J. M. Pescado]

So all those challenges out there are stupid and suck. Here's a meta-challenge:

Create a challenge subject to the following:
1. All scoring elements of the challenge must be treated as deterministic: Any random elements are treated as always proceed according to the optimal case (since a suboptimal start would automatically fail the optimal run test of the challenge anyway).
2. The challenge must be playable by a single player.
3. The challenge must terminate: A challenge that simply runs in an endless loop until the hypothetical player gets sick of playing does not terminate.
4. The challenge must be playable. A challenge where the player does not have any input or where the rules are contradictory in a way that makes compliance physically impossible is nonplayable.
5. The challenge must be coherent: It must model some known theme, not simply be an arbitrary collection of meaningless rules.

Such that:
1. The challenge cannot be solved (maximum or infinite score cannot be achieved) by a trivial process. If the challenge can be solved such that a hypothetical player can adhere to a strict script and achieve maximum score, the challenge is too trivial.

[Emma]

*Emma goes away to think.

Oh btw, what do we win? Anything?

[J. M. Pescado]

Free month's subscription?

[sloppyhousewife]

Okay, here's my entry - something I've wanted to try for ages. I'm afraid it's too trivial, though

The "Popularity Sucks" Challenge

The goal: Have 20 enemies.

Create an adult in CAS as you like, the only restriction: He or she must be a popularity sim and have at least 6 nice points. Let him/her move into an unoccupied lot.

It's not allowed to use cheats or to change the sim's aspiration during the challenge. You may not raise your sim's aspiration meter by artificial means (juice, SimVac etc.).

Scoring:

+5 points for each enemy (once per sim - so losing and re-gaining the enemy status will not earn additional 5 points)
- 1 point for each friend (includes critters and household members)
- 2 points for each best friend (accumulative to above)
- 1 point for each date that scores okay or better
- 5 points for each lost enemy status
- 5 points for each aspiration failure caused by an enemy fear
+2 bonus points if you antagonised everyone in your relationship panel

The challenge ends, when your sim has 20 enemies (duh), the maximum score is 102.

[Aggie]

Hmmm, here's one that I've recently started test playing on my own. I suspect you'll find it much too easy though, Pes. I have yet to thoroughly playtest it, though, so it may be subject to tweaking in case it's too hard/easy.

The Optimize Your Earning Potential Challenge
aka Being Able to Retire in Financial Security

This will require the use of Inge's $10,000 mortgage shrubs on Simlogical. If you can't (or won't) use it, you can still play this, but you'll have to remember when to deduct funds, how much to remove and to do it precisely at the correct time.

• Start this challenge with as many Sims as you want. You may even use pre-existing Sims if you like, but you would be required to use whatever means possible to randomize their skill levels, and none must start any higher than 3. Also, they cannot be Uni graduates. No two Sims may have the same aspiration, and they must be randomly chosen. The only exception is if you're starting with more than 6 Sims, but then no more than 2 may share the same one. If you start with 3 Sims and both Sim 1 and 3 roll romance, you must roll again to change Sim 3's aspiration until it's something other than a duplicate.
• Each Sim is required to have four $10,000 mortgage shrub on the lot. 1 Sim = 4 shrubs, 4 Sims = 16 shrubs, etc. This will deduct 400 simoleans from the household per day per Sim.
• Any additional Sim that moves in adds 4 shrubs to the household, regardless of how many shrubs each other Sim has left. Hence, the time of day they're moved in will be relevant. Only spouses may be moved in from the townie pool (one spouse per Sim), and no teens that achieve permaplat status in Uni may be moved back in.
• You may start in a pre-made lot, but once you begin, the funds on hand  must be set to 0. Funds permitting, you may remove one shrub per Sim every 7 days (if you have 4 Sims, you remove 4 shrubs on Monday at 8 am). If you can only afford to remove a few (example: if you have 4 Sims but you only have 35,000 simoleans on hand at 8 am on the 7th day), you may remove none and have to wait for the next week where you can still only remove 1 shrub per Sim. If you can afford to remove the required number of shrubs, you must do so, no matter how broke it makes you.
• If there are children born into the household, you must add the requisite 4 shrubs to the lot the next time 8 am comes around after they become teens. They are subject to the same rules as stated earlier. However, if said teen(s) leave(s) for Uni before 8 am the next day, the additional shrubs are not added.
• The goal is to have every Sim on the lot (from teen and up) achieve their LTW before all the shrubs are removed.
• You must select an option for every chance card.
• No fancy tricks in achieving LTWs. Examples include (but are not limited to):
  - Sims may not consume eggplant juice or use the aspiration reward that sucks skills from other Sims to Max SKills; all skill points must be earned. Smart Milk usage is not allowed.
  - Sims with the Woohoo 20 Different Sims LTW may not be permitted to Woohoo 10 Sims in one area and then Woohoo with them all in a public place to earn an unjust achievement; they have to woohoo 20 different Sims.
  - Sims may not achieve the Earn 100,000 Simoleans want by buying/reselling community lots, etc.
  - Sims may not achieve the Have 5 Top-Level Businesses LTW by bringing one up to 10 and then sabotaging it to 9 just to bring ti back to 10 again.
• You may not reroll the LTWs your Sims start out with, with the following exceptions: you're using a previously created Sim (and you may only reroll once), or you rolled an LTW that you'd sooner bite your own leg off than have to try to achieve (I'm looking at you, Have 20 Pet Best Friends).
• No use of the Elixir of Life or anything that extends life span.
• Any skill-building object with a fun value of 8 or more is not permitted. Career Reward Objects are usable only by the Sims that earned them.
  

• No two Sims may have the same job at the same time.
• No part-time jobs or earning money by any means other than jobs, chance cards, paintings, novels, or moving in Sims.
  
• None of the starting Sims nor anyone that still has active shrubs on the lot may move out before the end of the challenge.
• No selling items in the household just to get the minimum amount of funds when shrub pruning is due. The only reason you may sell items is when you're upgrading (or downgrading) or when you've received them as a date gift. Of course, you may also sell paintings.
  
• If any of the starting Sims dies before the completion of this challenge, you have failed. You achieved 0 points and have earned opnly a thorough P&Ling from all of those around you.
  
  • You may not change aspirations once the challenge has started, but you may choose the aspirations of any children that transition in the household.
  
  Once the final shrubs are removed, tally up your score.
  +0.5 for every Sim over 1 that you began the challenge with.
  +1 if all Sims achieved their LTWs (children and under excepted, of course). If only 3/4 achieved it, score 3/4 of a point, etc.
  +1 for each starting Sim that is not an elder when the challenge ends.
  +5 if none of the starting Sims are elders.
  +2 for each second LTW any Sim on the lot managed to achieve, +3 for each 3rd LTW they achieved, etc. These points are stackable.
  -1 for each death before the end of the challenge.
  -1 every time the household funds dip below 0 (I'm not sure if this is possible with the shrubs, but I assume it is).
  -1 for every Sim that retires before the end of the challenge without having achieved an LTW.
  
  Addendums:
  
  - Pets in the household (either starting or added later) require you to add 1 shrub and one shrub only per pet. This shrub can be removed at the specified day of the week when shrub removal is done. Any pets born into the family add 1 shrub each when they become adults.
  - I suppose you don't have to use these shrubs to play this challenge, but I find it would be immensely easier.
  - If you want to be complicated, I suppose you could simply say that no two Sims can have the same job at the same level at the same time (i.e. you can have an intern and a doctor in the household, but not 2 doctors). This Sim 'hood ain't big enough for two of the same position.

[J. M. Pescado]

The Optimize Your Earning Potential Challenge
aka Being Able to Retire in Financial Security

Well, so far, it seems an arbitrary collection of rules that don't correlate to much of anything, as the rules seem unrelated to the stated theme. Also, it's non-terminating, since there's nothing which forces you to ever end the challenge, as one can intentionally under-earn and thus never remove all the shrubs, and thus never end the challenge. Therefore, the challenge is nonterminating and the maximum score is infinite.

[Aggie]

Well, so far, it seems an arbitrary collection of rules that don't correlate to much of anything, as the rules seem unrelated to the stated theme. Also, it's non-terminating, since there's nothing which forces you to ever end the challenge, as one can intentionally under-earn and thus never remove all the shrubs, and thus never end the challenge. Therefore, the challenge is nonterminating and the maximum score is infinite.

I suppose I could add a rule like:

- If any of the starting Sims die before the completion of the challenge, you have failed. You earn 0 points and win only a thorough P&Ling from everyone around you.

Thus, the challenge would not be infinite or non-terminating, as any attempt to prevent aging (or death by old age) is already disallowed by the rules. The end is quite firmly declared to be upon the death of one of the starting Sims, and the maximum length of time would be 29 days (the adult life span) plus whatever the elder stage gave them. I don't imagine the average player would be willing (or able) to play a Sim long enough to obtain 4 or more LTWs. However, just in case, maybe a 'No changing Aspirations' rule would be a benefit.

[J. M. Pescado]

Thus, the challenge would not be infinite or non-terminating, as any attempt to prevent aging (or death by old age) is already disallowed by the rules. The end is quite firmly declared to be upon the death of one of the starting Sims, and the maximum length of time would be 29 days (the adult life span) plus whatever the elder stage gave them.

Doesn't help. It's possible for a sim to live forever even without any elixirs, vampirism, or other forms of immortality. Under certain conditions that occur naturally in gameplay, the Grim Reaper simply doesn't show up.

[Aggie]

Really? How does that happen?

[Kyna]

No fancy tricks in achieving LTWs. Examples include (but are not limited to):
- Sims may not achieve the Have 5 Top-Level Businesses LTW by bringing one up to 10 and then sabotaging it to 9 just to bring ti back to 10 again.

I had this happen in a game just this week, where I wasn't trying to do it.  As a result, the sim got his LTW after running 4 businesses.

None of the starting Sims nor anyone that still has active shrubs on the lot may move out before the end of the challenge.

Does this mean that any children created with the family in CAS can't be sent off to uni and then return?  Any sim going off to uni, then coming back is going to be able to achieve a job-based LTW on their first day of work (or maybe second day, depending on their moods).

Actually, that brings up the possibility of me removing harderjobs, anyLTW and LTWvariety, then making them all knowledge.  Which means that teens have a 1 in 4 chance of rolling up max all skills, which they are 1 cleaning skillpoint away from in my game at transition to teen.  They are then perma plat, and can continue cycling through the other 3 LTWs for repeated fast LTWs, starting at level 8 or 9 every time (as long as nobody else in the house is in the career).

No fancy tricks in achieving LTWs. Examples include (but are not limited to):
- Sims may not consume eggplant juice or use the aspiration reward that sucks skills from other Sims to Max SKills; all skill points must be earned.

Does this include smart milk?

Any skill-building object with a fun value of 8 or more is not permitted. Career Reward Objects are usable only by the Sims that earned them.

Does this rule allow for adults to use a career reward to skill up a child?  E.g. on the medical career reward the adult uses it, while the child watches.  The child does not actually use the object in this case.

What happens with scoring if the sim achieved his first LTW at Uni (e.g. 20 best friends, 20 loves/woohoos, max all skills, 5 businesses, earn $100K)?

[Hecubus]

The Poor Paris Challenge

This challenge is inspired by the recent news that Paris Hilton won't inherit as much as she thought, because her parents SPENT their money. 


Goal:
Make ‘Poor Paris' inherit as little as possible when she moves out, and test her creativity in providing for her own spawn.

Set up:
1. Create a family in CAS - parents plus one toddler. Genders are up to you. For the purposes of the challenge, I will refer to our subject sim as ‘Poor Paris'.
2. Using whatever cheats you prefer, build the family's initial wealth to §320,000.
3. Move them into a lot costing LESS THAN §100,000.

Cheats, Hacks and Fixes Required:
-No20KHandout
- jfade's ownablecarcostsmoney

Cheats, Hacks and Fixes Not Allowed:
-Any financial boosters (except for the one used to create the initial wealth
-Customer mood boosters (including snapdragons)
-Money tree
-Money order (Paladin has one, I think Inge has something similar?)
-Intentionally high return-on-investment items (like the investment silver from MTS2)
-Mortgage shrubs and other loan systems
-Landlord/rent system


Game play:

Stage One:
The parents are to spend as much money as possible on objects (except crafting stations), entertainment, renovations, clothing, and vacations so that when Poor Paris moves out, she has as little money as possible. However, she must have enough money to at least buy a lot, so there is a penalty for leaving Poor Paris with less than §1000. When Poor Paris becomes a teen, make her/his aspiration Fortune (just to drive her/him crazy.)

Zazazu''s Spiled Brat Option: Do not allow Poor Paris to get any skills, particularly in cleaning, mechanical and cooking. Do not allow Poor Paris to garden, clean, cook, repair etc. After all, Poor Paris is a spoiled brat and should have to suffer when booted out on her/his own. As Zazazu says, "Poor Paris may be poor, but she's a spoiled talentless brat."

Stage One restrictions:
-No further spawn. Poor Paris is an only child.
-No member of this household is to get a job.
-No member of this household can purchase a business.
-No member of this household is to start a home business.
-No member of this household can purchase a vacation home.
-No further cheats affecting financial status are allowed.
-Neither parent can move out, no matter how much they hate each other.

Stage One ending:
Once Poor Paris graduates from high school (and is now an adult), do NOT move her/him to University. Move Poor Paris out of the household using "find own place". At this point, Poor Paris should bring one third of the total available cash with her; if you have cheats in place to prevent this, remove them for the challenge.

Stage One scoring:
Poor Paris's inheritance (cash on hand in the sim bin):
§50K or more: -5 points
§40,000 - 49,999: 1 point
§30,000 - 39,999: 2 points
§20,000 - 29,999: 3 points
§10,000 - 19,999: 4 points
§5,000 - 9,999: 5 points
§2,500 - 4,999: 6 points
§1,000 - 2,499: 7 points
Less than §1000: -10 points



Stage Two:
Poor Paris doesn't want her spawn to face the same crisis of cash she/he has had to endure, thus she/he is to use ALMOST any means necessary to provide a nest egg for her child. Poor Paris can start a home business, buy a business, choose a well-paying career path, sell paintings and novels, even dig for treasure - whatever helps Poor Paris accumulate wealth. However, she/he has to earn it, not get it for free; there are penalties for marrying rich sims. She/he also can't have a job that pays thousands per day right off the bat; hence, there is a career choice restriction.

No Love For Paris Option: If Poor Paris is a female, do not let her marry; let her get pregnant from some risky woohoo (and get the video...sell it to the tabloids and make YOURSELF some bucks at the expense of a no-talent celeb.  ) and have to raise the kid herself. NO OTHER SIM may move in, even if he is the baby daddy. (If this option is chosen, do not use the child support hack from MTS2.)
 
Stage Two restrictions:
-Poor Paris cannot move into a lot with anyone else.
-No cheats affecting financial status are allowed.
-No one can move into the household EXCEPT Poor Paris's spouse.
-Upon marriage, Poor Paris's partner must be the one to move in.
-Poor Paris and her spouse must have EAxian careers only.
-Poor Paris must have only one child; use whatever cheats necessary to ensure no multiples. Poor Paris's spawn must also have the -Fortune aspiration.

Stage Two ending:
Once Poor Paris's child graduates from high school, to NOT move her/him to University. Move the child out of the household using "find own place." Thus endeth the challenge.

Stage Two scoring:
1. Spawn's inheritance (cash on hand in the sim bin):
§50K or more: 10 points
§40,000 - 49,999: 7 points
§30,000 - 39,999: 6 points
§20,000 - 29,999: 5 points
§10,000 - 19,999: 4 points
§5,000 - 9,999: 3 points
§2,500 - 4,999: 2 points
§1,000 - 2,499: 1 point
Less than §1000: -10 points

2. Amount of cash Poor Paris's mate brought into the household:
§75K or more: -10 points
§50,000 - 74,999: -7 points
§40,000 - 49,999: -5 points
§30,000 - 39,999: -3 points
§20,000 - 29,999: -1 point
§10,000 - 19,999: 1 point
§5,000 - 9,999: 3 points
§2,500 - 4,999: 5 points
§1,000 - 2,499: 7 points
Less than §1000: 10 points

Playing the "No Love for Paris" option: 10 points (a reward for your evil ways)


General Penalties:
-Use of financial cheats other than those explicitly required in the setup: -10 points per use
-Multiple spawn: -10 points per additional birth (exception: alien babies are only a five point penalty... because they're cool)
-Poor Paris, parents, mate, or spawn are/become plant sim/vampire/zombie/werewolf/immortal: -10 points per change
-Death of a parent, partner, or Poor Paris herself before the end of Stage Two: -5 points per death

Final scoring:
Add totals; anything in the positive is, well, a positive. Scores over 20 are terrific. Scores below 0 is mean but funny, especially if Poor Paris actually looks like Paris Hilton.


Edited to add no20Khandout requirement and Zazazu's spoiled brat option. And to fix typos.
Further edited to close the Kutto Loophole and add the "No Love for Paris" option. Also added requirement for jfade's ownablecarcostsmoney hack, as it sucks cash.

[kutto]

Infinite score exploit: Make the family all vampires and pump out alien babies.

[Aggie]

None of the starting Sims nor anyone that still has active shrubs on the lot may move out before the end of the challenge.

Does this mean that any children created with the family in CAS can't be sent off to uni and then return?  Any sim going off to uni, then coming back is going to be able to achieve a job-based LTW on their first day of work (or maybe second day, depending on their moods).

Good point. I'll add a 'No permaplat Sims may move back into the household from Uni' rule.

Actually, that brings up the possibility of me removing harderjobs, anyLTW and LTWvariety, then making them all knowledge.  Which means that teens have a 1 in 4 chance of rolling up max all skills, which they are 1 cleaning skillpoint away from in my game at transition to teen.  They are then perma plat, and can continue cycling through the other 3 LTWs for repeated fast LTWs, starting at level 8 or 9 every time (as long as nobody else in the house is in the career).

Another excellent point. Adding the 'Must randomize Aspirations at the beginning' rule.

- Sims may not consume eggplant juice or use the aspiration reward that sucks skills from other Sims to Max SKills; all skill points must be earned.

Does this include smart milk?

Yes.

Any skill-building object with a fun value of 8 or more is not permitted. Career Reward Objects are usable only by the Sims that earned them.

Does this rule allow for adults to use a career reward to skill up a child?  E.g. on the medical career reward the adult uses it, while the child watches.  The child does not actually use the object in this case.

No, adults may not teach children with Career rewards items.

[Zazazu]

Re: Poor Paris

Infinite score exploit: Make the family all vampires and pump out alien babies.

Add no immortals to the restrictions. Or no fantasy sims.

I'd also suggest that Poor Paris cannot have any skill points before leaving the house, nor should she gain any skill points that don't directly result from job requirements or painting for money. She also should never do any housework of any kind. No cleaning. No gardening. No repairing. Poor Paris may be poor, but she's a spoiled talentless brat.

[SaraMK]

Simplest challenge ever.

Run 'Em Into The Ground

Create two adult sims in CAS. Put them on any lot. Make them have a baby.

The baby is the challenge sim. It has exactly 50 days from birth to the end of the challenge.

From the moment of birth, your score is determined thus:

-1 for every green memory
+1 for every red memory

Do not count duplicate memories. Example: 50 disastrous dates count as just +1 point, 10 woohoos only count as -1, 5 $subjects died counts as only +1. Only one instance of each unique type of memory counts. You are not trying to accumulate negative memories by spamming "became enemies" or any such nonsense. If you meet 100 sims and get 100 "Met X" memories, that's still only -1. Yes, you do count ALL memories, even the garbage ones.

ADDED: Being burglarized and getting a red memory for it means a +1. Even if "Met Burglar" is your only "Met X" memory, you still don't lose a point.

Nothing is forbidden that can be done in the game.
CLARIFICATION: You may not use blatant cheats, for goodness sake! Aging a baby straight to adulthood using a hack is just retarded. Why even bother playing a challenge if you're going to use InSim every ten seconds? I'm seriously not going to bother making extra rules that specify every little thing like "don't debug-mode an alien abduction...".

I'm not at all bothered by the use of game-changing hacks, like Triplets/Quads, increased odds of abduction, blah blah blah. Use them all you like... you only get one lousy point for any memory, you know. Getting abducted easier might give you a slight advantage, but it's still just one point and I'm not interested in nitpicking.

The challenge ends 50 days from the challenge sim's birth, regardless of the sim's age or any other factors.
CLARIFICATION: 50 days means 50 days. You may not use hacks to re-live a day or give yourself extra days, since that's clearly dishonest.

The object is obviously to see whether it's possible to make a sim's life more negative than positive. This is harder than it first appears.

CLARIFICATION FOR ALL PESCADOS: Since memories are the object of the challenge, no, you may not wipe them out using hacked objects! Silly Pescado!

The trick in winning this challenge is hitting all the possible negative memories that exist in the game, within the time constraints.

Unfortunately score comparisons only work between players running the same EP configuration.



Edited to clarify, because Pescado was confuzzled.

[Hecubus]

Re: Poor Paris

Infinite score exploit: Make the family all vampires and pump out alien babies.

Add no immortals to the restrictions. Or no fantasy sims.

I'd also suggest that Poor Paris cannot have any skill points before leaving the house, nor should she gain any skill points that don't directly result from job requirements or painting for money. She also should never do any housework of any kind. No cleaning. No gardening. No repairing. Poor Paris may be poor, but she's a spoiled talentless brat.

Oh, you're evil! ::::applauds wildly::::

[Khan of Wyrms]

2. The challenge must be playable by a single player.

Small point of clarification.  Since there is no multi-player TS2 that I am aware of, this requirement means playable by one character?  As in, only one sim is the target of the challenge requirements and scoring?

[Aggie]

2. The challenge must be playable by a single player.

Small point of clarification.  Since there is no multi-player TS2 that I am aware of, this requirement means playable by one character?  As in, only one sim is the target of the challenge requirements and scoring?

I hope not; otherwise, mine is completely out of the running.

[Jelenedra]

Infinite score exploit: Make the family all vampires and pump out alien babies.

Even if you did make Poor Paris a vamp, she can only "pump out" one alien baby, as it states that there can only be one offspring. And that's ignoring the fact that the challenge ends when Paris' heir reaches their teens.

If you wanted to have the most time possible, don't get Paris knocked up until 3 or 4 days til she's an elder.

A way to make the challenge harder: >ake Paris a female, DO NOT allow her to get married or move in any sims, and make sure she gets knocked up by some random sim that's visiting.

[kutto]

Multiple spawn normally do have a penalty, HOWEVER, each alien baby is worth +5 points, as they are "cool". Also, the challenge ends when the heir "graduates from high school", which I took to mean when he or she reaches adulthood. Teens can be vampires, and thus immortal, so you would eventually just have a crapload of alien vampires. Since Hec did not ban household enlarging mods, it is certainly legal.

[J. M. Pescado]

Small point of clarification.  Since there is no multi-player TS2 that I am aware of, this requirement means playable by one character?  As in, only one sim is the target of the challenge requirements and scoring?

Some people have invented strange ideas in which the neighborhood file is passed around. This rule stipulates that the challenge must be playable by just one player, and must not involve any such shenanigans.

[Li'l Brudder]

Multiple spawn normally do have a penalty, HOWEVER, each alien baby is worth +5 points, as they are "cool". Also, the challenge ends when the heir "graduates from high school", which I took to mean when he or she reaches adulthood. Teens can be vampires, and thus immortal, so you would eventually just have a crapload of alien vampires. Since Hec did not ban household enlarging mods, it is certainly legal.

I'm afraid kutto has won this round.

[Hecubus]

Except the scoring is still based on First Born's financial gain upon graduation. Wouldn't it be less if you've got a house full of spawn when First Born leaves Paris's roost?

If not - I will change the challenge to avoid this loophole.

[Khan of Wyrms]

Small point of clarification.  Since there is no multi-player TS2 that I am aware of, this requirement means playable by one character?  As in, only one sim is the target of the challenge requirements and scoring?

Some people have invented strange ideas in which the neighborhood file is passed around. This rule stipulates that the challenge must be playable by just one player, and must not involve any such shenanigans.

Um, okay.  I would never have guessed.

I have a prototype challenge drawn up, and will be play-testing it over the next few days, as time allows.  After a bit of testing and tweaking, I will submit it for proper mocking and burnination.   

[Zazazu]

See the Boolprop forum. Actually, this thread for the idea. It goes against all my beliefs, as no one is allowed to touch my toys.