Survey on VS

[RainbowTigress]

Anyone seen this? 

Take Our Survey and You Could Get a Gift!
TAKE OUR SURVEY AND YOU COULD GET A TREAT COMPLIMENTS OF MAXIS AND VARIOUSIMMERS!!

50 lucky members, who take our survey, will recieve a surprise gift that Maxis has provided to Variousimmers to share with the Sims 2 Community in celebration of the release of the upcoming Console and Handheld versions of The Sims 2. There is no trick to this treat except to be one of the first 50 people to meet the criteria for the gift! So get you mouse moving and click the link, the survey is only 20 questions long!
Click here to take our Online Survey http://freeonlinesurveys.com/rendersurvey.asp?id=122090

There are questions included about what you think of VS, the moderators, the site, the administrators.  I was tempted to give bad marks but I thought of TJ and dizzy and bumped it up to Neutral, except for site administrators.     I was mainly just curious because I really don't care to win anything.  I don't use handheld gaming consoles.

[witch]

No, I haven't seen this as yet. I was aware it was going to happen but not in what format. In light of recent events I wonder about including questions about site admin though. 

[moonluck]

I took it and got an e-mail saying I'm going to get 'something' via UPS...

[J. M. Pescado]

It might be Anthrax. You never you know. Rentech is pretty crazy.

[Inge]

I don't suppose the site would let me take the survey.  I'm not even allowed to participate in the polls.  I got one of my moderation queue messages passed after 4 days and then Rentechd replied to it with a question as if nothing had ever happened.   She probably only passed it because she wanted to know something about it.   No "sorry this was held up" or anything.  Some of the people there are in serious denial.

[laeshanin]

And it is quite bitchy too... I've been astounded by the lack of maturity, and the ongoing resentment.    I, personally, don't see the point in holding a grudge for something that is waaaay in the past, and seemed to be a matter of semantics in any case. And the ignoring, Inge, is just plain rude, as well as childish.

[DrBeast]

It might be Anthrax. You never you know. Rentech is pretty crazy.

Antrax, hmm...they're ok, I've got a couple of albums. They should dish Beladonna though and get Bush back. The guy has a much better voice! OK, kidding aside (though they REALLY should get John Bush back!), the only reason I EVER get back to that site is TwoJeffs' hacks. And a couple of Dizzy2's if I can't find them in the labyrinth called MTS2. Too much Borg Virus paranoia in that site lately...

[witch]

I feel very awkward about the whole issue. I don't like what's been said and done, but I have lots hosted at VS. I've been trying to decide whether to resurrect my own webpage but that has a 10MB limit, not much scope for having downloads, only pics of houses and links to bbs hosting.

I managed to read about 1-2 pages and thought Delphy appeared approachable, placatory and reasonable in the bits I read. The bickering I left, not interested, I play a game and like to discuss it on forums, that's it. However the final post before the thread was locked was vile, I followed a link and wished I hadn't, I hope it's removed although the damage has been done. Very sad, very bitter. I'm at a loss.

[Motoki]

I wish TwoJeffs, Carrigon, Dizzy et al would get the hell out of there. I really resent having to go back to that place. She's such a Maxis brown noser too.   And she doesn't even want me to take that survey lol. The answers would not be pretty. 

[Motoki]

@ Witch: Don't get me started on Delphy! You'd have to have all day. And you wanna talk about brown nosers? Hell that guy has groupies for some unfathomable reason.

The Sims community is filled with a lot of nuts, drama and unsavory types. Something about running a Sims site seems to go to people's heads and they suddenly think they have power and try and use it. Oh yes, Virtual power over the internet for a site about a game.

The whole 'rights' nonsense irks the hell out of me too. I've seen people make a new rug or poster mesh and then have the nerve to say 'DO NOT CLONE, RECOLOR, POST ON THE EXCHANGE' etc etc. Excuse me but you made a mesh that consists of 2 polygons, basically two triangles put together to form a rectangle. It's hardly Michelangelo's David. 

There's other things that bug me too, the whole pay issue and just how much greed there is in something that's supposed to be a fun hobby. Oh and let's not forget the BBS. 

There's been several times where I've just been utterly disgusted by the Sims community as a whole and I've left and given up on it a couple of times. Oddly enough, if I mainly just stay here and only go to a few other places to download, I manage to keep my sanity. We're kinda nuts here, but in a good way, uh I think.

[Inge]

Motoki: But isn't Carrigon the one who thinks CEP can damage your boot sector?   For selfish reasons I have less of a down on her than the others in the thread, mainly because she seemed to understand where to draw the line in personal abuse.  However, I can't yet restore her to the ranks of Dizzy and Jeff and the others like Witch who didn't join in that tirade.

Witch:  I don't know if you're up for paying a monthly fee for a site at all, or if you're only able to use a free one, but I get 100Gb monthly bandwidth from Lunar Pages for $7.95 a month, and they're really great hosts, reliable and with customer forums so you can always give feedback and get help with the site.   You can choose whether you prefer to design html webpages or use one of their ready-to-go forum systems to upload your stuff to.

[Motoki]

Motoki: But isn't Carrigon the one who thinks CEP can damage your boot sector?

Is she? I have thankfully avoided the whole CEP debacle since I don't read any of their chat threads but someone here has informed me of it. She always seems pleasant and helpful, maybe she got sucked in by Pam's BS, or maybe my first impression of her was wrong. *shrug*

The whole thing, as I've heard it, sickens me. Numenor is such a nice guy and has done so much for the community. TSR threw money at him and he turned it down even. And he's never been anything but pleasant and helpful. For them to act so outrageous over something someone else made in their own free time and free of charge so that they could use it and then make demands that it be changed along with outrageous and slanderous accusations is just derranged.

As I told the person who informed me of the CEP mess, every so often Pam seems to need to go on some righteous crusade about some stupid shit or other. After this dies down, give her a few months and it will be something else then. 

[witch]

Witch:  I don't know if you're up for paying a monthly fee for a site at all, or if you're only able to use a free one, but I get 100Gb monthly bandwidth from Lunar Pages for $7.95 a month...

I take it that's US$7.95? That would be about $20 a month. I'll check it out and maybe some local hosters too. It would be nice to have everything in one place & ready made forums also sound good. Thanks for the suggestion.

[Inge]

Yup US$.  That's not even a fiver a month for me, which is the price of a round of drinks for a two!   It's given me so much fun too, even choosing the yucky colour scheme.  You can express your personality through your very own site.

The forum isn't there to start with but you have this sort of control panel thing and you click something and it sets you one up

You can read the Lunar Pages customer services forums and post any pre-sales questions you might have before taking the plunge http://www.lunarforums.com/

[Motoki]

I'd offer to host you Witch, but I'm done hosting people or otherwise going into any joint sites with people. Back in May I did that for someone for a well known hack in the Sims 2 community and when myself and these people had a disagreement over what people can and can't say at the board, one of them took it upon himself to copy the whole database with all the posts and users from the board that I set up on my server and on the domain name that I paid my own money to setup and started a new domain name behind my back, moving the whole site there under my nose. Then to add insult to injury, they got Delphy of all people to host them when their complaining about him and MTS2 and only staying there because they had nowhere else to go was the whole damned reason I went through the trouble of setting them up that site in the first place.

Now admittedly, I could and should have communicated with my feelings with them better. And it's no secret I can be a hothead sometimes, but I have my limits and taking shit off of someone's server that they paid money for when you've been trusted with the password and full access to it is a line I wouldn't cross.

Basically I had shit rubbed in my face by these individuals. Some of it I probably deserved, but not to the degree it ended up. The amount of backstabbing in the Sims community sometimes astounds me. It would make a good soap opera.

Anyway, I've been loathe to talk about this whole thing because A) I want to forget about it and B) I don't want them coming here to start some bullshit flame war, but one of the times I dissappeared from the community for a while this is why. Well this and a cross country move irl.

I don't want to name names because I'm not trying to bait them or call them out, but some of you can probably figure out who I am talking about.

[Inge]

Motoki:  Yes I can rub along with Carrigon - she's normally at least civil.   But I have always had her down as a misplaced politician.  What I mean is I always wondered why she wasn't too busy with committees in RL to play The Sims.   For some time before she joined VS, I had been wondering what might be the effect of a Rentechd/Carrigon partnership.   I would imagine Carrigon quickly started to take the lead with ideas at VS.   I don't think Rentechd would have started that fuss publicly on her own.  Rentechd's own particular specialism is the ability to quietly maintain a position regardless of evidence that the imagined slight did not take place or even when you give in and make a false confession that you can abjectly apologise for.  Nope, the grudge stays.   But it makes her the ideal right-hand woman to an activist.    I'd be interested to see where they go from here.

[laeshanin]

This nonsensical behaviour isn't limited to Sim's forums either. Other forum's I have personal interest in are also full of people who are quite obviously thwarted despots. And the rivalry...! Dearie me... 

[J. M. Pescado]

This nonsensical behaviour isn't limited to Sim's forums either. Other forum's I have personal interest in are also full of people who are quite obviously thwarted despots. And the rivalry...! Dearie me... 

My system runs on despotism tempered by apathy.

[Brynne]

It seems odd to me that maxis would join VS in conducting a survey about what we think of VS and its administration, etc. Why would Maxis single them out?

[RainbowTigress]

It seems odd to me that maxis would join VS in conducting a survey about what we think of VS and its administration, etc. Why would Maxis single them out?

I wondered that myself.  I know they do interviews on Snooty Sims, and TSR and MTS2 and maybe others are bigger sims sites than VS, so I don't get it.

[witch]

Nothing to do with Maxis except that VS were given 50 discs of the new platform sims to give away as prizes. I believe a rep from VS attended a presentation at some point - didn't really pay much attention, I think the discs are only playable in America.

It was up to VS how they decided to give these away. There was a discussion, I didn't follow it, saw the announcement here about the survey, so that must be how they decided to give away the discs. I know Maxis was pretty strict that they should be spread around the community, not just shared out with site staff.

[witch]

This nonsensical behaviour isn't limited to Sim's forums either. Other forum's I have personal interest in are also full of people who are quite obviously thwarted despots. And the rivalry...! Dearie me... 

My system runs on despotism tempered by apathy.

Resulting in the anarchy we have come to depend upon and enjoy here.

[witch]

I'd offer to host you Witch, but I'm done hosting people or otherwise going into any joint sites with people.

Thanks for the might-have-been offer. I hear what you're saying and I agree, ethically that sucks. In the situation I'm in now I can see the downside of joint sites, or being hosted by sites. Glad you decided to come back and have another look at the community.

As for Delphy, in reference to an earlier reply you made to me, I don't know him and know very little of him, so I'll just shut up now.

I don't know that I'm prolific enough or committed enough to have a whole site for my lots, I'm not keen on getting into hosting for other people or trying to build up forums or whatever, seems like there's plenty of those already & I know which ones I prefer. *cogitating now*

[Motoki]

Honestly, while I used to agree disagree as I came from a community where there really weren't any single creator sites, I now have to say I think people in the TS2 community are best off just putting their stuff up themselves on their own site if at all possible. Pescado went from posting his stuff at the TSR boards as attachments, to MTS2 (with a stint at Worldsims somewhere in between) to VS and finally ended up getting his own place. I've pretty much followed his migrations myself more out of getting disgusted with said sites than to purposely follow him (not that he isn't a cool old fart in his own weird way ). I just am tired of being a refugee. :p

I know Inge's always been big on people spreading out, putting up their own sites and just general decentralization of the TS2 creation community and I've got to agree with her. In some communities, a few central site works and works well. In this community (and likely others) it just breeds greed, drama and megalomania.

I think where one has their stuff says something about them. That's why I yanked my few things from MTS2 some time ago. I did let a couple of people put a couple of my things on TSR of all places, but they were nice people and I felt bad about saying no (despite how I come off sometimes I'm really an old softie) and I felt letting someone else repost it wasn't the same as me posting it, the latter which at least in my opinion suggest some support of the site on my part where the former to me just says I have a very open sharing policy.

I have to really frank and admit that when you posted about your houses on VS my first reaction was to not want to go there and download them. I feel bad saying that, but I really dislike the place, the person who runs it, and the way she has treated myself an others. I actually did go there and download them and they're quite nice as I do love starter homes. I don't want to post there and don't ever intend to except for a brief recent post about my picture frames since TwoJeffs had an old link and someone had pmed me about it (it was an old PM as I hadn't logged in there in ages).

Every time this Sims drama crap goes down some very nice people get caught up in it. People leave the site and the exposure for their items that were made to be shared is lessened. When the aforementioned people I talked about above and myself had our big blow out, there were several other innocent parties there on the site, including a very nice lady whom I had invited and set up with a place to host her files. At first they took her section out on the 'new' site, but I asked that they keep hosting her stuff because she was an innocent party and thankfully they granted me at least that much.

Anyway, I'm babbling, but yeah, I think everyone should put their stuff up on their own, even if it means just some barebones page on their isp or geocities or whatever with links to the actual files on the Exchange or FilePlanet or RapidShare or hell even a yahoo group.

[Sagana]

I can't believe I read that thread... and honestly that is one of the worst I've ever seen, and I've been around the gaming community and a variety of other places that can have some pretty big blowouts, for a long time. It's all full of overly dramatic exaggeration and misinformation and I don't even know Carrigon but she sounds kinda... out there.

None of these people must do very much html coding. Hasn't anyone ever used a wsiwig editor and then looked at the (side note: usually really really bad) code? Many of them (a particularly notorious piece of worthless junk by MS but many others as well) insert "created by" and copyright notices at the top of every page of html output using them - either in comments (that is, commented out in the code) or in meta tags (also invisible to joe public but easy to find if you actually look at the code - this page and VS have nice w3c lines, which is actually much more appropriate.) The creators of the editor certainly didn't *invent* html (not that Berners-Lee ever really gets the credit he deserves), nor do they own the copyright on the design, but they let everyone know their software was used in the process. And they don't "announce" they're doing it (you won't find it in the docs.)

Oh, and the opensource community does tons of things like that - all the various source codes for multi-user dimensions gives credit in the code to the original creators (many of whom left the community years previously - one way or another), and the license *requires* that that credit be untouched and that credit *also* be posted visibly for all who log in.

"Secret" credit lines :p Try and create a pdf without Adobe's name all over it - really... none of those companies give a whit if you own the copyright on the material you're creating on their programs, they're certainly putting their names into them any and everywhere they can (and for a pdf, you probably actually created it with some other program and did nothing but save it in that format for transferring.)

And no, your computer won't explode from CEP, and no someone can't just steal your work by inaccurately announcing a copyright. Copyright law is tricky, and it might be hard to prove if said person was fighting it (tho anyone with reasonable amounts of backups and developmental clutter on their computer could probably do it easily), but copyright is attached when the work is created, not when the notice is applied. *Claiming* something (truely or falsely, maliciously or benignly) is not the same as *having* something. Neither Numenor, RGiles (who I rather miss :p), nor MTS2 owns the copyright on any object created by someone else, whether they say they do or not (which I gather they don't). Although actually fighting for copyright on an object that requires Maxis' game to work would be opening a rather large can of worms anyways. None of us (not even EA) want to go there.

Snide remark: Wouldn't promotions generally be given based on the work done *at* the company, and certainly shouldn't job performance ratings be based on that, rather than (hopefully) extensive amounts of off-work time on a hobby? I've used freelance, voluntary work, or even self-promotional pieces as a part of my portfolio, but I can't see handing my bosses furniture and clothes created for the Sims2 and hoping that would aid in earning me a promotion - I think they'd be concerned my mind, if not company resources, wasn't more on my hobby than my job. </snide remark>

I'm not a big MTS2 fan - I like it well enough in some respects. In others I don't at all. But that was ridiculous and paranoid and... well just ... not completely sane...

(Yes I know I shouldn't drag it in here, but even if I could post there, I'd rather not, and I just felt a need to say something - so ya'll got stuck with my vent.)