Idea: "Arousal" meter

[veilchen]

That's the whole problem with TS2. Other games' files are more or less straight forward. TS2 files are not only often very strange, but interlinked in ways that boggle the mind. It's as if the developers thought of something and just stuck it somewhere - without rhyme or reason.

[Jelenedra]

They get customers to play-test for them, I wouldn't be surprised if most of the coding was done by interns. =p

[J. M. Pescado]

That's the whole problem with TS2. Other games' files are more or less straight forward.

Straightforward, yes, and largely unmodifiable without actually physically replacing entire datafiles, meaning mods become a package deal.

TS2 files are not only often very strange, but interlinked in ways that boggle the mind. It's as if the developers thought of something and just stuck it somewhere - without rhyme or reason.

What do you mean, "as if"? It's been publicly admitted that this *IS* what happens.

[veilchen]

Straightforward, yes, and largely unmodifiable without actually physically replacing entire datafiles, meaning mods become a package deal.

However, creating hak packs and modules still seems easier to do in those games than it is to deal with almost any file in TS2.

As for the admitted thing, I've never heard of EAxis admitting to anything. It's usually everybody else or their systems that are messed up, never EA itself. So that's refreshing to hear. Other than that, the file placement is like my kids' tidying up procedure:

"What's in this drawer? Oh, forks, knifes and such. A perfect place for my socks."

[Jelenedra]

I think I read in the article that Ste posted for Castaway about the developer stating the the Wii version would run better because it was coded strictly for the Wii and that there was no leftover code from the previous console games. So if they make their console games by just shoving new code over old, suffice to say that they do it for the PC version.

And from what I have heard Pes say, there is leftover code from the Sims ONE in the code for Sims 2.

[Zazazu]

There are leftover images from Sims 1 in Sims 2 as well, not shown in game, but in the UI whatsit packages.

[dizzy]

Lots of the "code" in TS2 is code straight out of TS1, just somewhat modified here and there.

If you want an example of a game that does mods the right way, I would say Doom 3 is just about ideal. EA games tend to be the type where you have to replace huge files with modified versions of those files.

[veilchen]

One of my kids has that game (Doom 3). I haven't really played it, it seems so dark most of the time. I'll have to snoop around in it, some more I guess.

What always made me laugh though is the name of Dr. Malcolm Betruger. Betrüger is the German word for Traitor, or Betrayer. I guess naming him Malcolm Betrayer would've been too obvious.

Right now I'm desperately trying to find my Diablo and Diablo II discs. I can't find the Baldur's Gate series either. Bummer.

[Ellatrue]

What I'd like to see, honestly, is some sort of mod that makes the environment motive harder to fill. It would be nice if there were more of a point to decorating.

[cwykes]

I agree with you about the environment bar - mind you, I have trouble filling that bar right up.  It always stops at about 95% full.  Is there a guide anywhere on exactly how environment score is calculated?

Someone posted earlier that the lovetub lets best friends woohoo without being in love.  Are they going to fall in love more easily in the hottub too?  If that's true it could explain some of my confusion about sim romance and how it's changed with added EPs.  I know I'm using lovetubs less than I used to.  I'll have to try that with those stupid, frigid sims who refuse to fall in love with anyone.

Inge's idea is interesting.  The food example is really a short term/long term issue isn't it?  My take on priorities is that there are a lot of places in the game where we need different measures for short and long term.  We have two bars for friendship, but we really need two bars for aspiration as well and some long and short term romance bars would be good too.  Maxis might well have thought base game was already complicated enough without adding another set of double indicators for romance.  We've got mods to make romance decay that contribute some sort of long term aspect to romance.   Does anyone think we're getting a new long term aspiration bar with the Free Time?  They've got pics of something that might be a new aspiration bar - or the old one in a different place on the screen.....

[Liz]

When it comes to Environment, I'd rather see a less compartmentalised effect (or, say, a Motive that matters). As it works now, Floor score gives you x% of the total, Wall score is another n%, and yer various furniture, decos, state of cleanliness, and whatnot make up the rest. But while I agree that all the paintings in the world shouldn't overcome a tatty-ass stained linoleum, it irks me that even if I've placed a very attractive $6 hardwood floor, all the $4,000 sculptures I can buy still leave the score unmaxed. I guess what I'm saying is that I'd like the floor or wall's percentage threshold be lower so that you don't *have* to use a very expensive Wall to max that silly Motive.

On one hand, I guess it's kind of nice to have a Motive that we can just set-and-forget which, barring green-stink plates or busted pipes, won't decay on us, but I've only seen 3 situations in which it really comes into play at all. One, the Headmaster scenario, in which a grown man will walk into your bathroom and holler like he's just scored a touchdown. Two, a critical drop, where a Sim will stop cleaning up to whinge about how the room could really use a good cleaning-up. And three, a non-Plat Sim's overall mood on leaving for work. But even if you've planted trees, flowers, and sculptures all around the front of your lawn to raise the score, the second they step over the sidewalk to get into the car, that score is guaranteed to plummet. So the concept of an Environment score is kind of intriguing and fairly realistic if you're trying to mimic RL, but in execution it's pretty much phail.

[J. M. Pescado]

The problem with making "environment" harder is that it's entirely subjective, anyway. Also, plastering your house in paintings has a very tangible effect on how crappily your game runs. Making it harder will make it nearly impossible to get a decent "environment" score, and you'll be left wondering why the sims always think the room sucks no matter how fine it looks to you. Besides, sims do not have an aesthetic sense and cannot actually distinguish "tatty linoleum" from fine carpet by any method other than some manner of price.

Two, a critical drop, where a Sim will stop cleaning up to whinge about how the room could really use a good cleaning-up.

LESS WHINY: GET IT, BITCH. That's EXACTLY what Less Whiny was specifically originally made to quash.

[Liz]

Yes, yes, we all know and love Less Whiny. Bitch was simply pointing out an instance where the Environment motive *would and is designed to* come into play.

There actually is tatty-ass, stained linoleum in the catalogue and is priced accordingly to make sure it drags down the overall score. I know very well that the Sims have no aesthetic sense. Otherwise they'd never wear that Maxis default shite. But in an otherwise well-appointed room, with appropriately expensive wallpaper and furnishings, I don't feel that a $6 wood floor should necessitate the hit that the overall score will take. That's all's I'm sayin'.

[witch]

Yeah sims have an aesthetic sense - remember Gali did a test with red and blue and decided sims liked red better? 

[cwykes]

she did? where?

I like those wood floors, maybe that's why I can't max a room score.  So how much do you need to spend to max the floor's contribution to room score?

since we're on the subject of environment score, I've been wondering for a long time:-
Do environment score and price have a strictly linear relationship?
Does the environment score go down as things depreciate or stay the same?

[doren]

I don't pay much attention to the environment score, but it has to depend on something else apart from walls, floors and expensive furniture. Size of the rooms and - most importantly - amount of windows/light?
I usually choose cheap floors and walls and I usually get a high environment score. I very rarely buy them expensive paintings and sculptures I use even less. My houses always have lots of windows though.

[cwykes]

True, it doesn't matter, but it just bugs me:
a) not knowing how the thing works and
b) getting to 95% and not being able to max it
It seems like the kind of thing there ought to be a definitive guide to somewhere...

[Liz]

Yes, doren, I forgot to mention the size of the room and having enough windows/lights - thank you   

I do pretty much consistently have a high enough room score to make the Headmaster do the "Hooray, you're potty trained!" cheer without having the snazz the place up for his visit. I'm also pretty much stuck around 95% too, but I  keep using the $6 floors that I prefer to the more expensive ones.

[Jelenedra]

Yeah, I always drag the headmaster into my bathrooms and bedrooms. Expensive toilets, showers, and beds = yayz.

[neriana]

Headmasters love my kitchens. They seem to like expensive counters.

[J. M. Pescado]

The headmaster actually requires a combination of good rooms and bad rooms for optimal tour milking. The headmaster halts the tour upon reaching or surpassing 40 points. A "good" room will get you about 10 points. An "excellent" room would get you about 15 points. Shitty rooms net you less than 10 points. So what you need to do is show up good rooms until you get to about 30 points, show him shitty rooms until you get to the 35-39 range, and then finally show him an "Excellent" room to get a 50+ point score.

[Nailati]

What I'd like to see, and I know it's impossible, is a chance for relationship scores to go down after woohoo, especially in the theoretical case that it happens due to high arousal and not due to high relationship.

[Inge]

Or if the man's arousal meter was far higher than the woman's when they began

[Nailati]

Ah hah! Cathartic! 

[cwykes]

What I'd like to see, and I know it's impossible, is a chance for relationship scores to go down after woohoo, especially in the theoretical case that it happens due to high arousal and not due to high relationship.

Now that sounds like another good idea!