Crash on resized lots at 7PM -- any ideas?

[Simsample]

Pbox, I tested your new version 'No Lamp' of the backdoor lot and unfortunately there is no difference. I placed the lot in a clean hood, created a CAS sim and caused a crash at 18:59. I tried this three times with consistent results. So the version with the lamp and without the lamp are no different for me, I'm afraid!

[Mootilda]

Well, you guys are making me nervous because I am not using a test neighborhood.  I plopped my new house down in the middle of Pleasantview's Downtown suburb, so I have a game with many hundreds of Sims in the Characters folder.

I would be wary of using a non-test neighborhood at this time.  We have seen more than one example of the game expanding any corruption that it finds to other sims and other houses within the neighborhood.  The Ottomas family is a example - Maxis warned people not to play the Ottomas family because it might corrupt your entire neighborhood.

From the reading that I've done, it doesn't sound like there is only one crash here.  Unless I'm reading incorrectly, some people are experiencing another crash which occurs when they first attempt to play the house, which cannot be a 7PM issue.

Also, everyone please remember - an intermittent crash means that many people can play this house without any problem - the fact that you manage to play without a problem is no guarantee that the problem won't occur the next time that you play.

I believe that pbox posted here in the hope that someone would be able to do some debugging based on the mini-dumps.

[pbox]

Simsample,

thank you! I'll add this to my post above (rehash of possible factors / correlations / etc so far). I'll try to keep updating that post so that people can see what has already been tested/confirmed/disproved. Thanks, this was helpful.

Mootilda,

From the reading that I've done, it doesn't sound like the there is only one crash here.  Unless I'm reading incorrectly, some people are experiencing another crash which occurs when they first attempt to play the house, which cannot be a 7PM issue.

Yes -- however, reports of other crashes (on save, for example) have been so few and far between that I don't see how I can do anything about it. I get this kind of thing ("your lot made my game crash") with other lot uploads too, from time to time. This happens with every kind of upload (not only lots, and not only mine). I have no idea what kind of families people are using, what hacks they have etc .. in this thread I really want to concentrate on the 7PM issue *only*, otherwise we'll never see a result I'm afraid. Maybe, if we find out something about the 7PM issue, it'll fix those other crashes too, maybe not.

Agree with everything else you said.

I believe that pbox posted here in the hope that someone would be able to do some debugging based on the mini-dumps.

Exactly. The crash logs have been downloaded, so I'm hoping that somebody is looking at them. Until then -- or even if nobody ever finds out anyting based on those logs -- I think it can still be helpful to try and narrow down the issue by testing. I imagine it might be easier to make sense of the crash logs when you know what to watch out for? Also, even if we don't find anything based on the logs, it would still be useful if we find out a consistent set of circumstances that leads, or may lead, to a crash. Or prevents a crash.

Many people have said that having row houses is more important to them than a possible crash, so whatever happens people *will* share this kind of lot. (Particularly since at least the time of the crash is known, so they can always save at 06:50PM and hope for the best)

[pbox]

(Moved from R+D thread)

Plasticbox I have just had a thought.  Was your light *on* when you saved the lot ready to shrink it?

No -- I'm sure about that. I made a screenshot last thing before exiting the lot. Daytime, light off.

I see that someone already got a crash with your new download.

Exactly, that's why I posted about it. No crash wouldn't have proved anything, I agree.

lol, this is all new, and if there're problems. You're gonna be the hero who happen to show them out...
Don't panic for whatever cause...

I'm not panicking  . I'm prepared to look like an idiot when it turns out that it was something I did -- but that's going to be for a good cause, because then we will know what causes the crash and everyone else (me included) will be able to avoid it in the future. I actually hope that this is what's going to happen, as opposed to leaving the issue unresolved with a "shrunk lots may or may not crash depending on unknown circumstances". Again, people *will* share shrunk lots. There is no way around that.

Plus, it's a good thing that it's my lots that crash -- I have enough earlier uploads to be reasonably sure that it *does* have something to do with the fact that the lots are shrunk. Imagine that this would have happened to a first-time uploader.

[pixiejuice]

I would like to be able to help you guys out, but I have not been able to reproduce this crash at all. 

Pbox, I have played two of your houses - the Backdoor Lane 42, and Row House 01, as well as several of my own shrunken row houses.  Both with my own Sims, and brand new, never-been-played CAS sims.  Both with saving and without.  All EPs, plenty of CC and mods.  I am using my regular (custom) hood at the moment.  7:00 PM comes around and everything is fine.  No crashing here.

Let me know if there is any particular scenario I could test.

[Zazazu]

Zazazu,

you say you "stripped the place entirely" -- do you recall, by any chance, whether you removed the street light as well?

I left the streetlight, mailbox, trashcan, and windows, doors, and walls exactly where they were originally. Did add a bit to the roof and filled in/flattened the basement.

I just got done with building four of my own townhomes. 2x1 (on edges) 2x2 (on edges) 1x1 (one from) 1x2 (one from). All playtested by playing through past 7pm and not saving, none crashed. All four had been placed in the lot bin and then placed in the 'hood again, but not packaged and installed.


OK, if anyone (especially those who have been having crashes) wants to test mine and see if they get the same, here are links:
All EPs required!
  1x1 townhome NOT on the edges (1 space cushion)
Link: http://www.4shared.com/file/27671259/d927b61/1x1_Townhouse_-_Kari.html

  2x1 townhome on right and left edges, 1 space cushion on back

Both are unfurnished. Maxis-only content. No streetlights. No basements.
Link: http://www.4shared.com/file/27671271/317f91d1/2x1_Townhouse_-_Kari.html

[Simsample]

Inge's lot (which did not crash for me) has the mailbox and trashcan moved just as Pbox's lots (which did crash) do... the only difference that I can see is that, as mentioned before, Pbox has two trash cans on the Backdoor lot.
Could EPs be significant here? I have BV as does Inge, and I can play Inge's lots fine. Yet Pbox does not have BV and his lots crash for me.
Pbox, I'm also hoping that someone will look at the logs and maybe shed some light on them- although all of mine mention 'Access Violation' and a particular .dll file in the game folder, I'm not sure how to interpret the rest of the figures on there.

[pbox]

Zazazu,

I don't package+install my lots either, and I do crash. Doesn't seem to play a role. Thanks, I'll add that to the "list of factors" post.


Simsample,

EPs do not seem to play any role at all (see abovementioned list -- EPs all over the place, some lots/users crash and some don't .. can't see any pattern there).

There are two or more trashcans on almost all of my "normal" Backdoor lane lots, none of them crash .. *may*be somehow the combination of extra trashcan and shrinking is breaking the lots, but seeing as I added the second can *after* shrinking (because during the shrinking process, the mbox/can are moved anyway) I don't see how it can play a role .. maybe Mootilda or someone who knows more than I do about what the LotExpander actually does and does not do with the lots can comment on this. I'll add it to the "list of things" post, in any case. Thank you.

[Inge]

I have been playing families in shrunk lots for days now, and none of them have crashed.  I have had lots with no portals, lots with no bins or mailboxes, lots with extra portals and ones where the cars couldn't stop because the road was like a roller coaster after I finished deforming the lot to test it.

Pbox, are you patched up to date with the game you have?   Has anyone *but* pbox managed to make a crashing shrunken lot?

[pbox]

Pbox, are you patched up to date with the game you have?

Not quite -- I use Seasons p2, not p3, because I like the crybabies. I have all other relevant patches.

That said, all of the crashing lots are made with the Base game / Base+NL using the Base Game Starter .. I would assume that those games have their respective patches (patches fiddle with the respective binaries directly, right?) but I'm not entirely sure. In any case, the crashing lots have never seen my Seasons game.

For what it's worth, aelflaed is also using the BGS base game and her lots haven't been crashing yet .. no idea how much of a role this plays.

Has anyone *but* pbox managed to make a crashing shrunken lot?

Apparently not, so far. I'm hoping this means that it will be easier to figure this out .. I'm not doing anything with the lots that other users cannot possibly do, as far as I'm aware.

Again, I don't think it can be *only* something that I do (or have .. say, lack of patches) -- I would have to have heard of, or seen, this crash before, with the number of downloads that my lots have. I'm fairly certain it is somehow related to the shrinking. Most probably, at this point in time, something that I do (and that others can also do) that's not compatible with the shrinking.

[mildlydisguised]

Just thought I'd add my report from playing 42 Backdoor Lane over the last couple of days.

First go, moved in a CAS sim, who was a teen when created but is now an adult, with a pregnant, adult Tosha Go.  Everything goes fine until I decide to save at 18:54, in readiness for a possible 19:00 crash.  Unfortunately the game crashed just after I chose to save.  I reloaded and played, saving periodically throughout the first day, 19:00 came and went without incident.  I'm now on day 3 and everything seems to be ok.

Second try, moved in a different CAS sim, who was, again, a teen when created but is now an adult.  I decided, from reading this thread that I would delete the streetlamp straightaway.  I also decided not to save at all during the lead up to the first 19:00.  I have plyed this lot for two days now and so far, no crashes.

I'm starting to think that the crash I had was related to the saving during the first day rather than the time although I can't be sure of this.  I am planning to create my own shrunken lot within the next couple of days and will report back if I encounter any crashes with mine.

Also just for info, I have all EPs and all SPs and nothing is patched.

[pbox]

First go, moved in a CAS sim, who was a teen when created but is now an adult, with a pregnant, adult Tosha Go.  Everything goes fine until I decide to save at 18:54, in readiness for a possible 19:00 crash.  Unfortunately the game crashed just after I chose to save.

Saving does not seem to have an effect, so far. Maybe your crash was simply the regular "scheduled" 7PM crash .. ? (Also, after a reload, nobody has ever had a crash so far.)

I am planning to create my own shrunken lot within the next couple of days and will report back if I encounter any crashes with mine.

That might be helpful I think. Thank you.

[Zazazu]

Just had something very, very odd with your lot, Plasticbox. I was in Badger Square playing a lot. Then moved to Fisher Roe and passed by the townhouse. No plumbob hovering above it. Play mode wasn't available. I went in under Buy/Build and all the furnishings were there, but Antwan and Lynn were nowhere to be found. Checked all the other houses, they weren't there. I finally ended up going to the house I was going to play in Fisher Roe and moving them in with the tombstone of life & death, then having them find their own place and moving them back in. On lot load, I sort of got the move in video...or at least the camera motion, but no taxi. The sims were exactly where I had last left them...Antwan eating breakfast and Lynn asleep.

[Doc Doofus]

What else happens at 7pm:  The lights turn on.

A couple of other ideas to test:

1. Does the newly installed and occupied lot crash if you go into build/buy mode and change the view to nighttime view?  I hadn't thought of trying that.  In many ways, that is similar to the 7pm changeover.

2. Turn on all lights before 7pm.  Or turn off all lights before 7pm.  That might make for an interesting experiment.  it would at least eliminate the possibility that it's something related to outdoor houselights turning on and off.

3. I can't think of anyway to change the hour by force to nighttime.  Can you think of one?  If you change the hour, you can only change it to an hour during the day, if it's daytime, or night, if it's nighttime.  I recall, though, somebody had a mod that would allow you to move vampires into lots at night.  Any leads on that?  That might make an interesting experiment.

Question: When you guys say you're moving townies into new lots, are you using the Sim bin or some other method?

For Zazazu or whoever had trouble downloading my lot, I don't understand the problem.  The link works for me.  Since you're getting an XML error, you might try doing right-click "save link as".

1x1 Row house.  All furniture is base game.  Paint, not so sure, but none of it is custom.  One floor tile is custom.  Stairs, not sure.  You can easily replace stairs if they are a problem.  I have all EPs but Pets, H&M, Celebrations.

http://webpages.charter.net/ronunderwood/1X1furnished-a.Sims2Pack


Question for Pbox: What are Seasons crybabies?

[Madame Mim]

Seasons crybabies = the incessant crying that started happening in Seasons pre-patch - which I (unwillingly) lost when forced to patch installing BV (or maybe Glamour) and am still bitter about.

Are the people getting crashes using lighting mods (ie Gunmod's mod) and the people who aren't getting crashes not? or visa versa.

Sorry - these are just stupid questions. I haven't installed the lot for testing.

[Doc Doofus]

No lighting patches here, I'm afraid.

I'm still curious if my lot (1x1-furnished see link above), which doesn't crash on my computer, crashes on other people's computer.  But Pbox's Backdoor 42 did crash.

[Rascal]

I downloaded aelflaed's lot from MTS2 and tried it out.  Crashed at 7pm - so it's not just your lots pbox.

Maybe there is something to the ep thing?  I don't have BV either so of course this means I can't test Inge's lot (after saying I would - sorry  ).

What else happens at 7pm:  The lights turn on.

A couple of other ideas to test:

1. Does the newly installed and occupied lot crash if you go into build/buy mode and change the view to nighttime view?  I hadn't thought of trying that.  In many ways, that is similar to the 7pm changeover.

2. Turn on all lights before 7pm.  Or turn off all lights before 7pm.  That might make for an interesting experiment.  it would at least eliminate the possibility that it's something related to outdoor houselights turning on and off.

1. In a different neighbourhood with another brand new CAS sim I tried changing to night view in buildmode pretty much as soon as the lot loaded.  It crashed straight away.  For me at least this proves it has something to do with the change of lighting from day to night.

2. I've already tried turning on and off house lights and it doesn't appear to make any difference.

I also tried packaging and then installing my empty lot (previously I'd just moved it in and out of the lot bin).  Still no crashes.

  -- My son asked me what I was doing and I explained I was testing these lots in order to help some clever people work out why they were crashing.  His response?  Oh - so you're the crash test dummy! 

ETA I don't have any lighting mods if that's any help.

[pbox]

Rascal,

thank you. Not what anyone wanted to hear   (that aelflaed's lot is crashing too) but enlightening. I've updated post #24, rest will have to wait until tonight.

It would be very helpful if someone could go check which EPs those who used my (+other) lots *successfully* are running. I admit I haven't really paid attention to that.

I used Base+NL, no lighting mods. 

(quick check before I *really* have to run off: according to their mts2 profiles, Mutantbunny and Conceited911 do not have BV (both had *no* crashes) -- but who knows how accurate these profiles are. KariMinger = Zazazu does have BV, she had no crashes. )

DocDoofus says above that he has all EPs (or that his lot needs all EPs), and Backdoor Lane 42 does crash for him.

EPs can't play much of a role, I would say. If at all.

[Rascal]

DocDoofus says above that he has all EPs (or that his lot needs all EPs), and Backdoor Lane 42 does crash for him.

EPs can't play much of a role, I would say. If at all.

What I wondered about, and what I think Simsample was getting at, was that the lots made in a game with BV (ie Inge, DocDofus) don't seem to crash, whereas lots made in a game without BV (yours and aelflaed's) do.

In other words the eps in the creator's game (rather than the end user's) may be important.

Perhaps the way the game handles the 7pm lighting change is different in BV?

[Theo]

I have installed plasticbox's Row House 1, dropped it into Pleasantview, and moved in  a couple of sims (born in-game, not CAS). The lot didn't crash past 7pm.

I have all expansions except for BV, and no object packs installed. The Seasons executable is a no-cd version. I also have an AMD cpu with hardware DEP enabled.


If you think the crash has something to do with the lot's lighting, have you tried to install a different lighting configuration? Gunmod's lighting config (and derivates) changes the daylight transition timing, creating a dusk setting before nightime.

[pioupiou]

What else happens at 7pm:  The lights turn on.

In my game, the lights turn on at 18:00, not 19:00.

[Mootilda]

I've skimmed through all of the posts.

If the crashes occur with lots made without BV and never occur with lots made with BV, then there is a possibility that there is an older record version which the LotExpander is not handling correctly.  Has anyone tried loading a lot which crashes in BV, making a build change to convince the game to regenerate all of the information in the lot package, and then saving?  This should change the record version to the latest one and might help to narrow down the problem.  If the BV-saved lot continues to crash, then it's unlikely to be an unknown record version.  However, if this fixes the crash permanently, then it may help point to the problem.

FYI: When a record type has multiple versions, it is usually because the data in the record is stored somewhat differently.  So, the LE might be trying to handle an X, Y coordinate in a record which actually has a string.

One thing that I can do is to provide a version of the LotExpander with some debugging code.  In order to help track down an unrelated crash in the LotExpander, I put code into the OBJT processing which prints out a hex and character dump (similar to the one that you see in the Hex Editor in SimPE), and then prints out each field in the record as it is processed.

This basically shows everything that the LotExpander "knows" about the OBJT records.  Someone would have to look over these records to see whether they could see anything anomalous - odd X and Y coordinates, truncated strings or strings which don't contain character data, etc.

Let me warn you that this would be a huge log file.  If people had specific objects that they wanted to check out (such as the trashcan), I could create a verion of the LE which would only print a log for specific OBJT instances; you would need to provide me with the instances that you want to look at.

I don't know whether this would be helpful or not, but if someone would like to try it, please let me know.  The OBJT record is one of the least-understood records that the LE is modifying, so I wouldn't be surprised to find some problem in the code.

If an alternative record type is suspected, I could probably do something similar for other records types, such as the roofs.

I will try to visit this thread again later today, or you can PM me at modthesims2.

[Emma]

I haven't been testing any of these lots and haven't even attempted to make a shrunk lot but I have been watching this thread with interest.
The lights come on at 6pm but it gets dark at 7pm. Also at 7pm I usually get a walkby in my game, whether that is a result of TJ's VC or not, I don't know. The walkby could either be a pet or a sim. Also if wolves are enabled to visit on the lot, that is usually the time they arrive.
Don't know how useful that is but that is what happens at 7pm in my game.

[pbox]

Emma, pioupiou, Theo -- regarding lights / time of crash:

Rascal says here:  "I tried changing to night view in buildmode pretty much as soon as the lot loaded.  It crashed straight away.  For me at least this proves it has something to do with the change of lighting from day to night."

Just to re-iterate I think this means it has something to do with nightfall.


Also, Theo: nobody (not even simsample, who otherwise very successfully manages to crash) has managed to crash with in-game sims or townies so far. Only with CAS sims.

In my game, the lights turn on at 18:00, not 19:00.

Same here.

What I wondered about, and what I think Simsample was getting at, was that the lots made in a game with BV (ie Inge, DocDofus) don't seem to crash, whereas lots made in a game without BV (yours and aelflaed's) do.

Ah ok, sorry, I misunderstood. Will rectify post #24.


Emma, re. wolves:

I don't have Pets and I crash.

[Emma]

Okay, I just thought I'd throw a few ideas in the pot